Is Homogeneity Of Membership Good Or Bad?

[H.U.S.T.L.E.]

Who was it (an ESPN writer I believe) that said something along the lines of the Big East is still a conference. All the other power conferences are just media rights consortiums - schools spread across the map with little in common. I think having like minded schools is a real strength of our conference. In this era of mega conferences with teams a lot of teams moving around, the similarities make us recognizable and help our brand. I think the adding public schools detracts from that and turns us into another "media rights consortium." The only exception, I believe, is UConn. Because despite a few years playing in the AAC, the UConn brand is still synonymous the Big East. UConn was also the only public founding member of Dave Gavitt's original Big East.

Very well said. The current BE is just about as perfect of a conference for basketball that you can get. There is no need to expand. The BE only expands for UCONN, ND or Kansas, in the event one or more of those 3 some how miraculously becomes available and are interested in joining the BE. VCU add nothing. UD adds nothing. There are VCU fans and UD fans on here constantly stirring the pot because they really want their teams to be invited to join the BE.

You constantly hear that FS1 is going to make the BE expand by 2 when the contract expires. 1.) No one knows what tv deal deals or even TV will look like in 3 years let alone close to 10 years from now. TV deals as we knew them are all probably dead anyway. 2.) If the league is happy with the 10 teams and can't get UCONN, ND or Kansas, they should stand their ground and fight for what they believe is a perfect conference. Now if we could just get SLU and Gonzaga to switch locations we might be on to something.

A few comments:

I think the "Big East is still a conference, other power conferences are just media rights consortiums" line of thinking is a feeble attempt to rationalize the Big East's place in the college sports landscape. And for those here, don't take it too personally when I say that, as I'm a college basketball purist and really do admire what the new Big East has built and hope it continues to be successful.

That being said, it's naive to dismiss the P5 conference's money-making model. I would also caution some posters here on the way they view the current Big East as something that's too perfect to fail. It's not, and unfortunately the way college athletics has grown, the almighty dollar speaks louder than ever. The statement I quoted above reeks of an inferiority complex from an outsider's view.

And as for VCU and UD fans "stirring the pot," that is certainly true in some instances. I'm under no illusion that VCU will be admitted in the Big East any time soon or would even be in the top 10 of schools the Big East would really want, but I think there are far more reasons to include them than exclude them. Bill Marsh in particular has been very articulate in why they shouldn't be overlooked. I think if you look through my post history, you'd see that I generally only defend VCU's candidacy when someone has mentioned them as unworthy. I would hope that other VCU fans would feel the same - as a relative newcomer on the scene of college basketball, I think die-hard VCU fans often look through a pretty narrow lens so it's hard for them to understand that perspective. But we're in a different world of college athletics, where past achievements and program history don't mean as much as many in the media would have you believe.

I'll just leave it at that, since I have no desire or reason to denigrate any of the Big East's schools. I live in the DMV and would love to see Georgetown regain its place in the college basketball pecking order, so I'd count myself as a fan anyway. Just thought I'd offer my two cents on the subject.

[_lh]

HUSTLE:

A few comments:

The line about the "Big East is still a conference, other power conferences are just media rights consortiums" line is a quote or partial quote reportably from someone at ESPN. No one here said it.

No one is dismissing anything the P5 is doing or has done. The P5 has football so it is apples to oranges from the start. Also, no one is claiming the BE is too perfect to fail. Only the SEC and B10 seem immune to outright failure. Adding teams from a mediocre pile is not going to strengthen the BE though.

I disagree that there are far more reasons to include VCU or UD than there are to exclude them. There are really no good reasons to add them. If either made real sense, they would already be in the BE. Obviously there are far more and better reasons that they are still in the A10.

If VCU or UD is ever added it will because the BE does not have any better options and is being black mailed in some manner to add teams they don't want.

[stever20]

The thing is, I feel like there could easily get to be pressure on the Big East to add schools. I think Fox very possibly will want to get to 12 teams to get more volume.

Also, I think the Big East will be watching what happens with the AAC very closely. If the conference goes from having 3 teams in the tourney(the 2 that were in the AAC along with Wichita) to having 4-5 or more- that's going to put pressure on the round robin. While yes, the Big East has done well with getting teams in the tourney, a lot of that has been extremely good luck thru the last 3 years in particular.

[Hoya Hoya Hoya]

The thing is, I feel like there could easily get to be pressure on the Big East to add schools. I think Fox very possibly will want to get to 12 teams to get more volume.

Also, I think the Big East will be watching what happens with the AAC very closely. If the conference goes from having 3 teams in the tourney(the 2 that were in the AAC along with Wichita) to having 4-5 or more- that's going to put pressure on the round robin. While yes, the Big East has done well with getting teams in the tourney, a lot of that has been extremely good luck thru the last 3 years in particular.

Yeah Val is defiantly paying attention to the that league for sure. AAAAAACCCCC is the greatest conference of all time and will continue to push the narrative that its a P6 conference

[Hall2012]

HUSTLE:

A few comments:

The line about the "Big East is still a conference, other power conferences are just media rights consortiums" line is a quote or partial quote reportably from someone at ESPN. No one here said it.

No one is dismissing anything the P5 is doing or has done. The P5 has football so it is apples to oranges from the start. Also, no one is claiming the BE is too perfect to fail. Only the SEC and B10 seem immune to outright failure. Adding teams from a mediocre pile is not going to strengthen the BE though.

I disagree that there are far more reasons to include VCU or UD than there are to exclude them. There are really no good reasons to add them. If either made real sense, they would already be in the BE. Obviously there are far more and better reasons that they are still in the A10.

If VCU or UD is ever added it will because the BE does not have any better options and is being black mailed in some manner to add teams they don't want.

Pretty much all of this.

Though I would stop short of saying there are "no good reasons" to add VCU and Dayton. There's 1 good reason - they've been winning recently. They've probably had the most recent success out of any non P5 or Big East schools not named Gonzaga and Wichita State.

The problem for me is that winning is a temporary state. Past success (even recent past) doesn't guarantee future success and I don't like the idea of trying to fix what isn't broke with no guarantee of improvement. For me to agree that adding another school is a good idea (especially if it means breaking up the all-private and/or double round robin models), I want to know that they will enhance the conference even as a middle or lower tier team in the standings. The two key ways I see to do that are to offer either a major DMA that the league doesn't already cover or a major national brand. That's why the only 2 schools I can think of that I would support adding are Saint Louis and UConn, though my preference is still to stay at 10.

[H.U.S.T.L.E.]

Though I would stop short of saying there are "no good reasons" to add VCU and Dayton. There's 1 good reason - they've been winning recently. They've probably had the most recent success out of any non P5 or Big East schools not named Gonzaga and Wichita State.

The problem for me is that winning is a temporary state. Past success (even recent past) doesn't guarantee future success and I don't like the idea of trying to fix what isn't broke with no guarantee of improvement. For me to agree that adding another school is a good idea (especially if it means breaking up the all-private and/or double round robin models), I want to know that they will enhance the conference even as a middle or lower tier team in the standings. The two key ways I see to do that are to offer either a major DMA that the league doesn't already cover or a major national brand. That's why the only 2 schools I can think of that I would support adding are Saint Louis and UConn, though my preference is still to stay at 10.

I totally understand this line of reasoning and I agree with you, especially the bolded part.

What I will say is often overlooked in these discussions is the actual money being invested in basketball. A great coach can overcome some financial disadvantages, but if a school is in that boat you're banking on making great hires every time. VCU was lucky in that they have been very good in the hiring process dating back to guys like Capel & Grant when they weren't at the level they are now. Where they have taken off since their Final Four run is that they made a long-term commitment to providing the necessary resources to stay on top of the A-10.

They have paid some of the highest (if not THE highest) salaries in the A-10, they built a $25 million basketball development center, and they have committed to improving the program in other ways, like increased recruiting budgets.

It's pretty clear that they'd make the necessary financial investment to keep up in the Big East if that were the case.

[_lh]

What I will say is often overlooked in these discussions is the actual money being invested in basketball. A great coach can overcome some financial disadvantages, but if a school is in that boat you're banking on making great hires every time. VCU was lucky in that they have been very good in the hiring process dating back to guys like Capel & Grant when they weren't at the level they are now. Where they have taken off since their Final Four run is that they made a long-term commitment to providing the necessary resources to stay on top of the A-10.

They have paid some of the highest (if not THE highest) salaries in the A-10, they built a $25 million basketball development center, and they have committed to improving the program in other ways, like increased recruiting budge.

Good for VCU. They should dominate the A10 for years to come.

[Dwon]

What they said^^^^

Deem us as worthy because were human, nothing else

Accolades

Naismith student section of the year winner 2013.The Rowdy Rams outlasted the remaining candidates including Gonzaga, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Pitt, Purdue.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ncaa-tournament-ranking-the-25-best-march-madness-cinderella-stories/

[url]
http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men ... ball-towns[/url]

[H.U.S.T.L.E.]

What I will say is often overlooked in these discussions is the actual money being invested in basketball. A great coach can overcome some financial disadvantages, but if a school is in that boat you're banking on making great hires every time. VCU was lucky in that they have been very good in the hiring process dating back to guys like Capel & Grant when they weren't at the level they are now. Where they have taken off since their Final Four run is that they made a long-term commitment to providing the necessary resources to stay on top of the A-10.

They have paid some of the highest (if not THE highest) salaries in the A-10, they built a $25 million basketball development center, and they have committed to improving the program in other ways, like increased recruiting budge.

Good for VCU. They should dominate the A10 for years to come.

I like how you left out the last line, which speculated they'd make whatever the investment would be needed to compete with the rest of the Big East.

You scared, bro?

(Really, I'm just kidding. This whole back & forth is built on hypotheticals, since I agree with most here that the Big East is likely to remain in its current configuration for a while unless UConn somehow becomes available.)

[_lh]

What I will say is often overlooked in these discussions is the actual money being invested in basketball. A great coach can overcome some financial disadvantages, but if a school is in that boat you're banking on making great hires every time. VCU was lucky in that they have been very good in the hiring process dating back to guys like Capel & Grant when they weren't at the level they are now. Where they have taken off since their Final Four run is that they made a long-term commitment to providing the necessary resources to stay on top of the A-10.

They have paid some of the highest (if not THE highest) salaries in the A-10, they built a $25 million basketball development center, and they have committed to improving the program in other ways, like increased recruiting budge.

Good for VCU. They should dominate the A10 for years to come.

I like how you left out the last line, which speculated they'd make whatever the investment would be needed to compete with the rest of the Big East.

You scared, bro?

(Really, I'm just kidding. This whole back & forth is built on hypotheticals, since I agree with most here that the Big East is likely to remain in its current configuration for a while unless UConn somehow becomes available.)

I left it out because VCU is an A10 team and will be for a long, long time. Glad they are positioning themselves to potentially dominate it. If you are going to be stuck in a weaker league, you might as well be the best team in it.