Bracketology '17

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

Bracket Matrix – UNOFFICIAL FINAL RESULTS

The final Bracket Matrix listed 174 brackets. Congratulations to Pulse on their first-place finish with a score of 367.

The average score for all 174 brackets was 341, which would put the average score in a tie for 63rd place.

Jerry Palm (CBS Sports) finished in a tie for 131st place with a score of 330, and Joe Lunardi (ESPN) finished in a tie for 134th place with a score of 329, meaning that they both fared far worse than the average published Bracketologist.

[stever20]

Bracket Matrix – UNOFFICIAL FINAL RESULTS

The final Bracket Matrix listed 174 brackets. Congratulations to Pulse on their first-place finish with a score of 367.

The average score for all 174 brackets was 341, which would put the average score in a tie for 63rd place.

Jerry Palm (CBS Sports) finished in a tie for 131st place with a score of 330, and Joe Lunardi (ESPN) finished in a tie for 134th place with a score of 329, meaning that they both fared far worse than the average published Bracketologist.

The Matrix as a whole was much better this year than last year- last year matrix score was 329. This year best year since 2013 for the Matrix. I wonder how much of that was due to the top 16 getting revealed in Feb. You would think that would help them out quite a bit.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Wisconsin was 1-4 away vs top 50- win @ Minnesota, but losses at Purdue, Michigan, Creighton, and Michigan St. Then 0-2 neutral vs top 50- losses to UNC and Michigan. so that's 1-6.
Minnesota was 2-3 away vs top 50- wins @ Purdue and Maryland, but losses at Florida St, Wisconsin, and Michigan. St. Then 2-1 neutral vs top 50- wins over Vandy and Mich St, loss to Michigan. That's 4-4

That's a pretty significant difference there.

Only Louisville, Oregon, Cincy, SMU, St Mary's, VCU(with 0), UNCW(with 0), Nevada(with 0), Dayton, Wichita St, Illinois St(with 0), Mid Tennessee, Wake Forest, USC(with 0), Miami, South Carolina(with 0), UT Arlington, Vermont(with 0), Princeton(with 0), and Monmouth(with 0) had 0 or 1 road/neutral wins vs top 50 teams besides Wisconsin. Meanwhile- Minnesota with 4 was topped by only 7 teams and matched by only 5 teams.

Again I believe you are cherry picking stats...

BTW UW won @ MN and beat NW at the BTT on a neutral floor. So that's 2, not one. And you undoubtedly know but choose to ignore, Mich St is NOT in the RPI top 50. So, yes 2-5 vs the RPI top 50 away from home. And if you are going to cite a stat as somehow indicative of underwhelming road performance perhaps you should pick one that doesn't include a #2 seed, a #3 seed, (2) #6 seeds, (3) #7 seeds. So you basically admitted that UW did something that 7 teams seeded AHEAD of them did not. Thanks for reinforcing my point.

Secondly your argument that UW could not win away from home and MN could gets negated when you expand the selection to Top 100. UW has 7 wins away from home vs the Top 100. MN had 6. You continue to just pretend that stat doesn't exist and you continue to focus on what makes your argument look better. Lastly UW played 22 games vs the Top 100--14 of which were on the road. MN played 20 games vs the Top 100, with 11 being away from home. They also finished with a better record than MN and beat them twice H2H. Hmmm..... Just ignore those too.

So perhaps, just perhaps, like the committee, you should look a little closer at what the data is telling you about which team played a more difficult schedule. Enough with whether LIU Brooklyn (226), N. Ill (239) are sooooo much more challenging than Chicago St (318) and Central Arkansas (312). Honestly is beating one two teams by 20+ much different than beating teams by 30? We all know there is no real difference on the court playing a team in the 200's and a team in the 300's. Both suck. Both are cupcakes. But the OOC SOS is affected tremendously by something as simple as that and this is the only reason you can claim that MN was challenged more OOC.

[stever20]

Wisconsin was 1-4 away vs top 50- win @ Minnesota, but losses at Purdue, Michigan, Creighton, and Michigan St. Then 0-2 neutral vs top 50- losses to UNC and Michigan. so that's 1-6.
Minnesota was 2-3 away vs top 50- wins @ Purdue and Maryland, but losses at Florida St, Wisconsin, and Michigan. St. Then 2-1 neutral vs top 50- wins over Vandy and Mich St, loss to Michigan. That's 4-4

That's a pretty significant difference there.

Only Louisville, Oregon, Cincy, SMU, St Mary's, VCU(with 0), UNCW(with 0), Nevada(with 0), Dayton, Wichita St, Illinois St(with 0), Mid Tennessee, Wake Forest, USC(with 0), Miami, South Carolina(with 0), UT Arlington, Vermont(with 0), Princeton(with 0), and Monmouth(with 0) had 0 or 1 road/neutral wins vs top 50 teams besides Wisconsin. Meanwhile- Minnesota with 4 was topped by only 7 teams and matched by only 5 teams.

Again I believe you are cherry picking stats...

BTW UW won @ MN and beat NW at the BTT on a neutral floor. So that's 2, not one. And you undoubtedly know but choose to ignore, Mich St is NOT in the RPI top 50. So, yes 2-5 vs the RPI top 50 away from home. And if you are going to cite a stat as somehow indicative of underwhelming road performance perhaps you should pick one that doesn't include a #2 seed, a #3 seed, (2) #6 seeds, (3) #7 seeds. So you basically admitted that UW did something that 7 teams seeded AHEAD of them did not. Thanks for reinforcing my point.

Secondly your argument that UW could not win away from home and MN could gets negated when you expand the selection to Top 100. UW has 7 wins away from home vs the Top 100. MN had 6. You continue to just pretend that stat doesn't exist and you continue to focus on what makes your argument look better. Lastly UW played 22 games vs the Top 100--14 of which were on the road. MN played 20 games vs the Top 100, with 11 being away from home. They also finished with a better record than MN and beat them twice H2H. Hmmm..... Just ignore those too.

So perhaps, just perhaps, like the committee, you should look a little closer at what the data is telling you about which team played a more difficult schedule. Enough with whether LIU Brooklyn (226), N. Ill (239) are sooooo much more challenging than Chicago St (318) and Central Arkansas (312). Honestly is beating one two teams by 20+ much different than beating teams by 30? We all know there is no real difference on the court playing a team in the 200's and a team in the 300's. Both suck. Both are cupcakes. But the OOC SOS is affected tremendously by something as simple as that and this is the only reason you can claim that MN was challenged more OOC.

look at the OFFICIAL NCAA ratings....
https://extra.ncaa.org/solutions/rpi/St ... ctions.pdf
Michigan St is #50
Northwestern is #51
I think I'll believe the official NCAA ratings over any other site.

Why top 50 is so important is the fact that those are the teams you are playing in the tourney. Not teams like #79 Indiana 2x, or #82 Tennessee. Wisconsin beat only 3 NCAA teams away from home. 6-7 total vs teams in the tourney either at large or in the top 60 but automatic(not counting the smaller conference autos). Minnesota beat 5 NCAA teams away from home. 8-7 vs teams in tourney either at large or in the top 60 but auto.

[GumbyDamnit!]

look at the OFFICIAL NCAA ratings....
https://extra.ncaa.org/solutions/rpi/St ... ctions.pdf
Michigan St is #50
Northwestern is #51
I think I'll believe the official NCAA ratings over any other site.

Why top 50 is so important is the fact that those are the teams you are playing in the tourney. Not teams like #79 Indiana 2x, or #82 Tennessee. Wisconsin beat only 3 NCAA teams away from home. 6-7 total vs teams in the tourney either at large or in the top 60 but automatic(not counting the smaller conference autos). Minnesota beat 5 NCAA teams away from home. 8-7 vs teams in tourney either at large or in the top 60 but auto.

I used ESPN RPI #'s. You got me. Wow, what a huge difference.... So in your mind NW is not as good of a win as Mich St because one is 50 and the other is 51? Got it.

You are also basing your entire reasoning on the fact that UW was unable to win (on the road especially) vs the Top 50 only. But refuse to acknowledge that they played more and won more vs. Top 100. And theyplayed more of those Topp 100 games on the road.

Additionally if wins vs the Top 50 "is so important" as you claim then why are SMU and Cincy 6 seeds? SMU didn't win a single Top 50 game away from home until Sunday vs Cinc. in the AAC Finals. In fact other than their 2 wins vs. Cinc. they have ZERO Top 50 wins. They are a #6 seed and have beaten only one other tournament team. Let that sink in. And Cincy won all of 1 Top 50 game away from home. So UW won 3x more games vs tourney teams than SMU. You going to stick with your debate that Top 50 wins are critical, and have to admit that the AAC is also over-valued, or move the goalposts to fit your flawed logic yet again?

[stever20]

look at the OFFICIAL NCAA ratings....
https://extra.ncaa.org/solutions/rpi/St ... ctions.pdf
Michigan St is #50
Northwestern is #51
I think I'll believe the official NCAA ratings over any other site.

Why top 50 is so important is the fact that those are the teams you are playing in the tourney. Not teams like #79 Indiana 2x, or #82 Tennessee. Wisconsin beat only 3 NCAA teams away from home. 6-7 total vs teams in the tourney either at large or in the top 60 but automatic(not counting the smaller conference autos). Minnesota beat 5 NCAA teams away from home. 8-7 vs teams in tourney either at large or in the top 60 but auto.

I used ESPN RPI #'s. You got me. Wow, what a huge difference.... So in your mind NW is not as good of a win as Mich St because one is 50 and the other is 51? Got it.

You are also basing your entire reasoning on the fact that UW was unable to win (on the road especially) vs the Top 50 only. But refuse to acknowledge that they played more and won more vs. Top 100. And theyplayed more of those Topp 100 games on the road.

Additionally if wins vs the Top 50 "is so important" as you claim then why are SMU and Cincy 6 seeds? SMU didn't win a single Top 50 game away from home until Sunday vs Cinc. in the AAC Finals. In fact other than their 2 wins vs. Cinc. they have ZERO Top 50 wins. They are a #6 seed and have beaten only one other tournament team. Let that sink in. And Cincy won all of 1 Top 50 game away from home. So UW won 3x more games vs tourney teams than SMU. You going to stick with your debate that Top 50 wins are critical, and have to admit that the AAC is also over-valued, or move the goalposts to fit your flawed logic yet again?

why top 100 means far less than top 50 is top 50 teams are in the tourney. a lot of teams 51-100 aren't. Beating teams like Tennessee and Indiana and Ohio St just don't move the needle much.

As far as about SMU and Cincy- their records had enough of a difference to put them ahead of Wisconsin.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Ok so record is important regardless of quality wins for AAC teams but not for a Big10 team. Remember that UW has a better overall record than MN but you said it was all about record vs Top 50 and having a quality OOC SOS and performance.

SMU is 0-2 OOC vs "tourney teams" (in this case the last at large in the tourney USC, and a 7 seed Michigan). Thats it.

That's your argument?

[GumbyDamnit!]

why top 100 means far less than top 50 is top 50 teams are in the tourney. a lot of teams 51-100 aren't. Beating teams like Tennessee and Indiana and Ohio St just don't move the needle much.

If you believe that games vs 51-100 means little than why the f&@k do you think games vs teams with rpi's in the 200's are so much better than games vs teams in the 300's!!??? Because as we see those games in the 300's clearly affect that OOC SOS that you find so important (well at least in this thread).

[Westbrook#36]

stever's standard operating procedure for posting.

Step 1. cherry pick stats to defend position/opinion
Step 1a. when confronted with overwhelming stats and contradictory information go to step 2

Step 2. move the goalposts

[stever20]

Ok so record is important regardless of quality wins for AAC teams but not for a Big10 team. Remember that UW has a better overall record than MN but you said it was all about record vs Top 50 and having a quality OOC SOS and performance.

SMU is 0-2 OOC vs "tourney teams" (in this case the last at large in the tourney USC, and a 7 seed Michigan). Thats it.

That's your argument?

The thing is, the difference between Wisconsin and Minnesota record wise is 1/2 game. a lot different than the gap between SMU/Cincy and Wisconsin- which is 4 games for Cincy and 5 games for SMU. A pretty big difference there.

I personally think Wisconsin should have been a 7.