Holtmann at Butler

[billyjack]

I was never a fan of Gottfried at NC State. Yes, he's talked some major recruits into playing for him, but I found that Gottfried would just bank on those stars going unconscious from the floor... which is fine, it allows you to win games, but it involves little in the way of X's and O's... just hand the ball to Cat Barber and pray he hits contested jumpers.

Also, his 4 consecutive NCAA bids from 2012 thru 2015 hid some shortcomings:
- his records in the ACC were 9-7, 11-7, 9-9, 10-8, 5-13, 4-12...
- finished in the ACC in 4th place and 4th again pre-BE raid, then 7th, 6th, 13th, and 14th.
- seeds in the NCAA's were 11-seed (gift), 8-seed, 12-seed (gift), and 8-seed... so 2 of those years he got a borderline bid... in 2014 beat Xavier cuz T.J. Warren went bonkers... just roll the ball to Warren or Cat Barber and no coaching is necessary.

Anyway, plus his general whininess is annoying, and though I have more blurbs I'm tired of talking about the guy so I'm gonna end it here.

Nice piece of trivia ---> Gottfried was on the losing Alabama team which got blown out in the 1987 Sweet Sixteen game to the Providence Friars by 22 points.

Holtmann has a great thing going at Butler. Excellent coach. Good disposition. Late game in The Huddle last night, my wife commented that she was surprised the coach was so calm and nice to his players. Would love to see him stay with the Dawgs!

[FDS]

Slightly off topic, but what ever became off Brandon Miller?

Nobody who knows has ever really said as far as I know. There were rumors of substance abuse when he left, but that was never confirmed, and he has really disappeared from the public eye. He didn't even show up to the memorial for his former teammate Joel Cornette (although I heard he didn't because he didn't want to be a distraction).

[alduflux]

Hope Butler can keep him long term. What are your guys thoughts on that prospect?

I have no knowledge of Holtmann's personal aspirations or family situation. I have no real expectation of Butler being able to keep him unless he has some personal reason why he won't leave Butler. There are around 15-20 programs that he would have to leave Butler for if offered (Indiana is one of them, NC State is not).

Of course his personal situation may float that number one way or the other. Obviously some similar coaches have single digit numbers of programs they would consider leaving their current situation for (Wright, Few as examples. Even Stevens turned down UCLA while at Butler.)

Holtmann may be fine with the smaller paycheck Butler pays him. The problem can be if he tires from losing assistants who have to take higher paying jobs (Lewis last year who makes more then twice as much at Nebraska as Butler was paying him in the same position.)

The good news for Butler is losing Holtmann shouldn't hurt them as much as it could have in the past. Obviously Butler has successfully promoted from within, but part of that was out of necessity. Being a part of the Big East makes hiring other up and coming coaches a realistic option. Butler is positioned well to be in that second or third tier of jobs nationally.

[Irishdawg]

I have no idea if Holtmann is at Butler for the long haul. I hope he is, but you never know what someone's personal aspirations might be.

Butler won't be able to match the money of a NC State or IU, but there's one asset in place at Butler that is really hard to put a value on and that's Barry Collier. He knows what these coaches go through and is a dream for them to work for. Debbie Yow at NC State is retiring soon, do you think any coach likes the idea of not knowing who his boss is going to be long-term vs. working for an individual who you know isn’t going anywhere soon?

As for IU, I think Holtmann could be very good there, but the pressure there is insane comparatively speaking, and while the Crossroads Classic is not going to last forever, Butler does play IU every couple of years , so he’d essentially be coaching against guys that he recruited which I’m sure wouldn’t be enjoyable. Also, on IU’s side, what does it say if they reach out and Holtmann says no? They don’t want to look foolish in all of this because Fred Glass has a job to protect, and getting turned down by the coach of a program that they still consider mid-major in their own state would certainly be a punch to the gut.

Holtmann’s also friends with Brad Stevens, whose wife is on the Board of Trustees at Butler, and it never hurts to have someone like that in Butler’s corner.

[BMRadio99]

There are around 15-20 programs that he would have to leave Butler for if offered (Indiana is one of them, NC State is not).

I really do think it's this simple. Even taking off my Butler blue glasses for a second, I do think he likes being at Butler. I don't have any inflated notions of where Butler is in the basketball universe. It's not the stepping-stone job it was 15 years ago, despite what the Jeff Goodmans of the world might think. Butler will not keep him from a Kentucky, Indiana, Louisville kind of job. But I'm not worried about NC State, Missouri, etc. like I have been in the past.

[herodotus]

I doubt Holtmann is looking to leave Butler. I certainly can't see him leaving for a third tier job like Mizzou, or to be the third wheel in North Carolina at State. Indiana is a different deal. You just don't turn down a job like that, especially if you're already established in the state. You win at Indiana, and you absolutely own the state. This is in addition to the increase in salary. To me, the coach most likely to leave for a second tier job is going to be Kevin Willard, especially if SH can make the tournament, which would cause him to pop up on other school's radar. Somebody in the league is going to be a loser besides DePaul. You just can't have a situation where 90% of the teams in the league are good, it's basic math. This season, the middle teams were helped by Georgetown's struggles, and the fact that St. John's isn't there yet. The collapse of Xavier due to injuries helped as well, as a few middle teams have won games against X, that would have been losses earlier in the season. If St. John's, and Marquette continue to move up, someone else has to move down. If Willard doesn't think Seton Hall can consistently be in the top half of the league, he may look to jump.

[butlerguy03]

Also, on IU’s side, what does it say if they reach out and Holtmann says no? They don’t want to look foolish in all of this because Fred Glass has a job to protect, and getting turned down by the coach of a program that they still consider mid-major in their own state would certainly be a punch to the gut.

This is why, outside of a possible all-time great like Brad Stevens, I don't think Indiana can afford to go after Holtmann. IU already has the 3rd or 4th best program in the state right now, so why risk a PR nightmare of being turned down by Butler's head coach.

My Indiana College Program Rankings:
1. Purdue - big ten program that is winning right now, possible all-american
2. Notre Dame - ACC means something and they just win every year
3. Butler - Big East brand helps immensely, but it is still suffering from years of being "little" or "mid-major"
4. Indiana - they can't keep players, but are still a classic blue-blood
5. Valparaiso - they just win and have moved easily and quietly from low-major Summit to mid-major Horizon
6. Indiana State - MVC helps, but they are mired in the middle of the pack most years - they recruit Indiana heavily, which helps
7. Evansville - See Indiana State
8. Ball State - mid/low-major who missed a great opportunity to capitalize on strength in the 90's and 00's.
9. IPFW ("Fort Wayne") - commuter campus low-major
10. IUPUI - commuter campus low-major

The fact that Indiana is stuck between Butler and Valpo says a lot. I don't understand why they are ranked so high nationally in job-searches. The last time, the only thing they could get is Tom Crean, who owes his entire career to one player.

[milksteak]

Also, on IU’s side, what does it say if they reach out and Holtmann says no? They don’t want to look foolish in all of this because Fred Glass has a job to protect, and getting turned down by the coach of a program that they still consider mid-major in their own state would certainly be a punch to the gut.

This is why, outside of a possible all-time great like Brad Stevens, I don't think Indiana can afford to go after Holtmann. IU already has the 3rd or 4th best program in the state right now, so why risk a PR nightmare of being turned down by Butler's head coach.

My Indiana College Program Rankings:
1. Purdue - big ten program that is winning right now, possible all-american
2. Notre Dame - ACC means something and they just win every year
3. Butler - Big East brand helps immensely, but it is still suffering from years of being "little" or "mid-major"
4. Indiana - they can't keep players, but are still a classic blue-blood
5. Valparaiso - they just win and have moved easily and quietly from low-major Summit to mid-major Horizon
6. Indiana State - MVC helps, but they are mired in the middle of the pack most years - they recruit Indiana heavily, which helps
7. Evansville - See Indiana State
8. Ball State - mid/low-major who missed a great opportunity to capitalize on strength in the 90's and 00's.
9. IPFW ("Fort Wayne") - commuter campus low-major
10. IUPUI - commuter campus low-major

The fact that Indiana is stuck between Butler and Valpo says a lot. I don't understand why they are ranked so high nationally in job-searches. The last time, the only thing they could get is Tom Crean, who owes his entire career to one player.

Don't let your IU hate get in the way. They are the top program in the state even if they are perennial underachievers with Crean.

[butlerguy03]

Don't let your IU hate get in the way. They are the top program in the state even if they are perennial underachievers with Crean.

No doubt they have the highest potential of any program in the state, probably the Midwest. I think I was going more off of recent program strength. You can't deny that Purdue, Notre Dame and Butler have had much more recent success.

[Bill Marsh]

Also, on IU’s side, what does it say if they reach out and Holtmann says no? They don’t want to look foolish in all of this because Fred Glass has a job to protect, and getting turned down by the coach of a program that they still consider mid-major in their own state would certainly be a punch to the gut.

This is why, outside of a possible all-time great like Brad Stevens, I don't think Indiana can afford to go after Holtmann. IU already has the 3rd or 4th best program in the state right now, so why risk a PR nightmare of being turned down by Butler's head coach.

My Indiana College Program Rankings:
1. Purdue - big ten program that is winning right now, possible all-american
2. Notre Dame - ACC means something and they just win every year
3. Butler - Big East brand helps immensely, but it is still suffering from years of being "little" or "mid-major"
4. Indiana - they can't keep players, but are still a classic blue-blood
5. Valparaiso - they just win and have moved easily and quietly from low-major Summit to mid-major Horizon
6. Indiana State - MVC helps, but they are mired in the middle of the pack most years - they recruit Indiana heavily, which helps
7. Evansville - See Indiana State
8. Ball State - mid/low-major who missed a great opportunity to capitalize on strength in the 90's and 00's.
9. IPFW ("Fort Wayne") - commuter campus low-major
10. IUPUI - commuter campus low-major

The fact that Indiana is stuck between Butler and Valpo says a lot. I don't understand why they are ranked so high nationally in job-searches. The last time, the only thing they could get is Tom Crean, who owes his entire career to one player.

Was that one player Travis Diener?