Big East needs another Nova, who will it be?

[JohnW22]

Don't get me wrong I think Xavier will be fine as a program but we are talking Final 4/Championship here which Xavier has never made. To get up to the level where Nova is currently at will take a lot of things going in the right direction and a lot of luck.

Which things will we need to get going in the right direction and need correction that will change your outlook? I am genuinely curious here.

Honestly Xavier needs to keep good players for four years. Look at what Nova has done with Arch, Ochefu, Pingston, Hillard, Bell, Heart, Reynolds, and Jenkins. Since Chris Mack has become coach he has got 14 recruits that could have been in their senior year/graduated by now(Jeff Robinson-Myles Davis). Of those 14 only 3 has stayed all 4 year, Dee Davis, Jeff Robinson, and James Farr which were all 3 stars. I know a lot of crap happened with some players but like I said it also takes luck. Also there has been 17 players who have graduated or will graduate this year under Mack(Jason Love- Rashid Gaston) of those 17, 9 have been transfers. Also since Mack started coaching 12 players has transferred. I understand times have changed and people leave and transfers are a bigger thing than ever but if Xavier wants to be at that elite Nova level they need four year players in my opinion. Just my thinking though and a lot of it/pretty much all of it isn't Macks fault but just bad luck/some things not going right.

[Xudash]

Look at it this way, Villanova is operating on all cylinders (a large V-8 at that). The three so-called "newbies" are well-positioned and contributing very well to the Big East.

So, simply imagine Georgetown getting back to prominence, with St. Johns doing the same.

Marquette sold out their NBA Arena the other night, as did Seton Hall. Providence will only continue to get strong under Cooley.

Now, with a new facility, it's history, the city of Chicago, and hopefully a new athletic director sooner than later, imagine this conference with Depaul back online.

Villanova was going to be very good this year anyway. But it would've been more interesting had Creighton and Xavier stayed healthier. The overall point is simply that we have 10 programs which are fully capable of getting the job done moving forward.

We were all a little concerned when this thing got going. Anyone who knows and understands the Big East at this point cannot possibly hold such a concern now. I base that comment on the fact that we are well-heeled financially, have a strong media agreement that provides excellent exposure, and a strong collective group of programs that comprise the conference.

[herodotus]

Villanova has been a consistently successful program ever since Al Severance first stepped on campus during the mid 30s. Only St. John's is within shouting distance of them overall. There have been zero extended stretches of bad play in Nova's history. Any hiccups have been quickly corrected. Nova, along with St. John's, was a power from the 30s, through the end of the independent era in the mid 70s. This was a time when Syracuse, and Georgetown were garbage, and Xavier, Butler, and Creighton were little known. When long time Catholic powers like Bona, Duquesne, and Holy Cross fell off in the 70s, Nova rolled on. When Cuse, and Georgetown emerged in the late 70s, Nova ran right with them. When St. John's, and DePaul began to stumble, Nova stayed on it's feet. When the football schools began to dominate the BE, and schools like Seton Hall, and PC began to get ground under, Nova competed with no problem. Even the much maligned Lappas years would have been seen as highly successful for most of the schools in this league. You have to really hand it to Villanova; they've run their program very very well, for 80 years.

[Xudash]

Villanova has been a consistently successful program ever since Al Severance first stepped on campus during the mid 30s. Only St. John's is within shouting distance of them overall. There have been zero extended stretches of bad play in Nova's history. Any hiccups have been quickly corrected. Nova, along with St. John's, was a power from the 30s, through the end of the independent era in the mid 70s. This was a time when Syracuse, and Georgetown were garbage, and Xavier, Butler, and Creighton were little known. When long time Catholic powers like Bona, Duquesne, and Holy Cross fell off in the 70s, Nova rolled on. When Cuse, and Georgetown emerged in the late 70s, Nova ran right with them. When St. John's, and DePaul began to stumble, Nova stayed on it's feet. When the football schools began to dominate the BE, and schools like Seton Hall, and PC began to get ground under, Nova competed with no problem. Even the much maligned Lappas years would have been seen as highly successful for most of the schools in this league. You have to really hand it to Villanova; they've run their program very very well, for 80 years.

If you're going back to the 30's, then Xavier won the NIT in 1958 (beat Dayton, I think) when it still kind of mattered. Xavier's problem primarily was falling apart in the 60's and 70's.

[MUBoxer]

Villanova has been a consistently successful program ever since Al Severance first stepped on campus during the mid 30s. Only St. John's is within shouting distance of them overall. There have been zero extended stretches of bad play in Nova's history. Any hiccups have been quickly corrected. Nova, along with St. John's, was a power from the 30s, through the end of the independent era in the mid 70s. This was a time when Syracuse, and Georgetown were garbage, and Xavier, Butler, and Creighton were little known. When long time Catholic powers like Bona, Duquesne, and Holy Cross fell off in the 70s, Nova rolled on. When Cuse, and Georgetown emerged in the late 70s, Nova ran right with them. When St. John's, and DePaul began to stumble, Nova stayed on it's feet. When the football schools began to dominate the BE, and schools like Seton Hall, and PC began to get ground under, Nova competed with no problem. Even the much maligned Lappas years would have been seen as highly successful for most of the schools in this league. You have to really hand it to Villanova; they've run their program very very well, for 80 years.

Umm you seem to completely skim over the 70s ignoring the team that was by far the best of all of us in the 70s...

[herodotus]

Villanova has been a consistently successful program ever since Al Severance first stepped on campus during the mid 30s. Only St. John's is within shouting distance of them overall. There have been zero extended stretches of bad play in Nova's history. Any hiccups have been quickly corrected. Nova, along with St. John's, was a power from the 30s, through the end of the independent era in the mid 70s. This was a time when Syracuse, and Georgetown were garbage, and Xavier, Butler, and Creighton were little known. When long time Catholic powers like Bona, Duquesne, and Holy Cross fell off in the 70s, Nova rolled on. When Cuse, and Georgetown emerged in the late 70s, Nova ran right with them. When St. John's, and DePaul began to stumble, Nova stayed on it's feet. When the football schools began to dominate the BE, and schools like Seton Hall, and PC began to get ground under, Nova competed with no problem. Even the much maligned Lappas years would have been seen as highly successful for most of the schools in this league. You have to really hand it to Villanova; they've run their program very very well, for 80 years.

Umm you seem to completely skim over the 70s ignoring the team that was by far the best of all of us in the 70s...

I know Marquette was great under McGuire, but you're missing the point. There were lots of teams who had great runs. PC was also a monster in the 60s and 70s, but what were they and MU during the 30s, 40s, and 50s? Not on Villanova's level, that's for sure. Even when MU was at it's peak, Villanova made the Final, and gave UCLA it's toughest Championship Game of the Wooden era. Yeah Xavier had a good team when they won the NIT, but there were a lot of not so good years as well. Villanova has been very good in every era since the mid 30s. Even St. John's can no longer say that.

[scoscox]

Don't get me wrong I think Xavier will be fine as a program but we are talking Final 4/Championship here which Xavier has never made. To get up to the level where Nova is currently at will take a lot of things going in the right direction and a lot of luck.

Which things will we need to get going in the right direction and need correction that will change your outlook? I am genuinely curious here.

Honestly Xavier needs to keep good players for four years. Look at what Nova has done with Arch, Ochefu, Pingston, Hillard, Bell, Heart, Reynolds, and Jenkins. Since Chris Mack has become coach he has got 14 recruits that could have been in their senior year/graduated by now(Jeff Robinson-Myles Davis). Of those 14 only 3 has stayed all 4 year, Dee Davis, Jeff Robinson, and James Farr which were all 3 stars. I know a lot of crap happened with some players but like I said it also takes luck. Also there has been 17 players who have graduated or will graduate this year under Mack(Jason Love- Rashid Gaston) of those 17, 9 have been transfers. Also since Mack started coaching 12 players has transferred. I understand times have changed and people leave and transfers are a bigger thing than ever but if Xavier wants to be at that elite Nova level they need four year players in my opinion. Just my thinking though and a lot of it/pretty much all of it isn't Macks fault but just bad luck/some things not going right.

That is actually one of my main gripes with Mack. I don't think all of it is on him, but I think he is responsible to an extent. The only really significant losses imo were Lyons, Wells and Christon out of that bunch. Collectively this year we were hurt by transfers. Still, I dont think this is a significant or even lasting problem

[Nildogg]

I am biased, but I find all the Xavier talk amusing. I guess that old mentality of telling everyone that they werent a mid major has finally won some people over. They sure like to pound their chests, and have high major off-court issues, but bottom line is that they have never made it to a Final Four, and I just dont think Chris Mack has "it". Lots of show, no dough.

My obvious choice is Butler, becase its been a consistent top 25 team for the past decade, minus a couple of hiccups, and thats with unpresidented coach turnover. Back to Back championship games, and I have to believe a bigger name nationally than this threads darling. (X) The program has an uncanny ability to evaluate and make a progrsm out of unheralded talent, but is now getting the kind of recruits that are going to match up with anyones skill and size. (See next years class) I think this program is about to take an even greater jump.

That said, Id have to think Georgetown has the name and history to be as good as anyone in this conference. I just wonder if GT3 has what it takes. The right coach could bring everything back.

[gmoser1210]

Oh boy. Time to get some popcorn.

[Xudash]

Don't get me wrong I think Xavier will be fine as a program but we are talking Final 4/Championship here which Xavier has never made. To get up to the level where Nova is currently at will take a lot of things going in the right direction and a lot of luck.

That is actually one of my main gripes with Mack. I don't think all of it is on him, but I think he is responsible to an extent. The only really significant losses imo were Lyons, Wells and Christon out of that bunch. Collectively this year we were hurt by transfers. Still, I dont think this is a significant or even lasting problem

We know Wells' departure wasn't his fault. The Lyons situation was a little complicated.

Overall, with the BE affiliation in his quiver, I believe we're going to see great things out of Mack on the recruiting trail and in terms of building strong teams. We're already trending in that direction.