Non Big East Games of Interest - 2016-17

[Hall2012]

I tend to agree with Stever here. As harsh as that call is, not calling a foul for running square into a pick sets a dangerous precedent. Obviously, in this case the defender had his eye on the ball and wasn't aware of the pick being set, so the foul against him was very unfortunate. Ideally a play like that would be no call while someone intentionally bulldozing a player setting a pick would be a foul, but differentiating calls based on refs attempting to judge player intent is getting into a very hairy situation.

[Gopher+RamFan]

VCU has benefited from a series of personal decisions that in totality resulted in wins.

1. SBU: Game clock operator stops the clock at 0.4 seconds after the made basket (unlike the GW game where it went to 0.0). Coaches and bench run onto court, which is a technical since the ball is considered live after a made basket. Referees seem unaware and don't call anything. One fan opposite the SBU bench runs onto the court at the same time making contact with a referee. VCU guard Doug Brooks realizes the situation and has to chase down the security guard for the ball. He has stated in interviews that he knew if he could inbound the ball, an automatic T would be called. He inbounds it and immediately begins calling for the T. VCU hits the 1 shot to tie, then wins in overtime.

2. GW: interim HC Maurice Joseph goes ecstatic once the clock hits 0. Referees put back 0.04 seconds back on the clock. Joseph decides to put in a player who has 10 TOTAL minutes played this year for length to defend the inbound. VCU practices this play every day, but has never used it. Defender gets faked going to the right, doesn't look to his left and trucks the offensive screener. Although his foot was OOB, that doesn't matter in the backcourt after a made basket. The GW player was inserted cold off the bench, focused too much on the ball.

What's really concerning is the fact that VCU was up 2, and has had back to back games where the opposing team hit a 3 with less than a second left at the same point on the court. Can't continue to have that happen.

[ArmyVet]

The team with the most points at the end of the game wins. End of story. The challenge I have is that in both cases VCU sort of went against the spirit of the game to get those wins it sounds like by your explanation. I am not a fan of intentionally trying to get a technical foul called. And designing a play clearly to try and force a ref to call a meaningless yet game changing foul should make the VCU coach a bit sheepish.

[Gopher+RamFan]

The team with the most points at the end of the game wins. End of story. The challenge I have is that in both cases VCU sort of went against the spirit of the game to get those wins it sounds like by your explanation. I am not a fan of intentionally trying to get a technical foul called. And designing a play clearly to try and force a ref to call a meaningless yet game changing foul should make the VCU coach a bit sheepish.

The intent of playing is to win within the rules of the game. I don't mind the rule changing to disallow it, but to be upset about a team/coach using the best case play to tie or win the game is odd. The play has been around for decades, Will Wade learned it as an assistant at Clemson under Oliver Purnell.

A technical foul cannot be called unless one team is doing something against the rule. The play at GW was a push foul, not a T. Teams are responsible for their bench leaving, coaches being at mid court, even their security grabbing a live ball as they are contractors. If you would call that with 14 minutes left, you have to call it with 0.4 seconds left.

Who defines the spirit of the game? We want the game to be decided by the players as much as possible - but if there's a push foul or technical it needs to be called. You know from your time in the Army, rules and regulations are meant for everyone regardless of situation or timing. Heck, wearing a reflective belt in a combat zone makes no sense to me but it was still a rule and I followed it (until we left the wire where it wasn't a rule).

[ArmyVet]

I am not arguing that everything was within the rules. Let's just say I wouldn't want to win the way VCU just won and I certainly wouldn't be proud if my team won that way. That's all.

[paulxu]

That's all very well and good about the rules.
And I can't find anywhere in the rules something about setting a screen with one foot out-of-bounds, like in the VCU/GW game.
So, assumedly it is legal.
And sure you can use that play.
But...the screen was illegal.
The player had his feet spaced way beyond the allowed limit of his shoulders. (required per the NCAA rules)
And, as you noted, the GW player didn't have time to avoid...the rule requires at least one step distance to accomplish the avoidance.
So, OK, a good idea. But not legally executed.

[Gopher+RamFan]

That's all very well and good about the rules.
And I can't find anywhere in the rules something about setting a screen with one foot out-of-bounds, like in the VCU/GW game.
So, assumedly it is legal.
And sure you can use that play.
But...the screen was illegal.
The player had his feet spaced way beyond the allowed limit of his shoulders. (required per the NCAA rules)
And, as you noted, the GW player didn't have time to avoid...the rule requires at least one step distance to accomplish the avoidance.
So, OK, a good idea. But not legally executed.

I don't want to belabor this too much on a big east board, but freshman Colin Goss (the defender) had ample time to react. The problem is he did not turn and look elsewhere - he focused too much on the inbounder. He got faked to the right as JQ Lewis set the screen. Goss had a couple of steps but never looked up. If this were a screen during live play and he ran unknowingly into a screen you wouldn't say anything. It happens all of the time and the defender should either blame himself for not looking or his teammates for not yelling out "screen left". Communication on defense is vital.

I'm not proud of a win, Our 83% shoot missed 2 free throws to give GW the chance to tie/win. This game should've been put away. But for some posters to say that the VCU coach shouldn't have called that play, that VCU shouldn't want to win that way is ridiculous. Win the game any way you can within the rule book.

P.S. The width of the feet vs. the shoulder is something I've never seen get called. Plenty of screeners extend their legs but I've never seen the foul. SBU ran a double screen to hit the 3 last week, the second screen extended his leg and tripped Jonathan Williams, obviously it wasn't called an illegal screen. That is such a hard thing to discern in real time and extremely subjective.

[paulxu]

I don't think you watched the tape. He didn't get "faked to the right" when the screen was set.
It wasn't "set" until he was in full motion to the left, and only "set" for less than a second before contact.
There shouldn't have been a call; and if there was, you can't just call the part of the rule you want.
His screen wasn't legal, width of feet and time set before contact.

[Gopher+RamFan]

I don't think you watched the tape. He didn't get "faked to the right" when the screen was set.
It wasn't "set" until he was in full motion to the left, and only "set" for less than a second before contact.
There shouldn't have been a call; and if there was, you can't just call the part of the rule you want.
His screen wasn't legal, width of feet and time set before contact.

I've seen the video countless times, as well as was there in person. Tillman does a ball fake to his left to get Goss moving, during this time Lewis runs from the ft line. Goss takes two shuffle steps after Lewis is set.

I know you're also a Richmond fan, but come on. If the defensive player had even looked around (like most players do, again Goss is a freshman who's played 10 minutes total so I can't fault him much compared to the coach who put him in a tense situation) he could've slowed down or at least not extended his left arm that more than likely was the reason the ref felt he had to make the call.

Let's take this to the A10 board where you also post, getting to be too much here.

[kayako]

I don't want to belabor this too much on a big east board

It's fine in this thread. fwiw I've always thought these NCAA clock operators were subpar and at times biased. It doesn't help that refs have to babysit these homers.