Biggest surprise?

[XUFan09]

The thing I'd like to see more out of from Patton is rebounding. I realize the offensive boards won't be there for him as much because Creighton makes basically all their shots, but to be a truly dominant big he need to start to clean up better on the defensive end. Not that 6.4 rebounds per game is by any means bad, but I'd expect a guy his size, where he's almost always the tallest man on the court, to be a double double machine.

His defensive rebounding rate is 20.7% of opponents' misses, putting him at #6 in the Big East. That's really good. Not elite, but really good. The problem with using rebounds per game is that it's a raw statistic. Patton only plays 25 minutes per game and his team doesn't force a lot of misses (no more than the D1 average), so there are fewer total rebounding opportunities for him than for some other players.

Patton's minutes are on the rise, though, so we should see the raw rebounding numbers go up to.

[Bill Marsh]

No one called him a sophomore in reference to basketball. It's a simple fact that he's a college sophomore, not a freshman. The point was that it's foolish to compare a player who's 2 years out of high school with Patrick Ewing who was in his first year out of high school and hadn't even started playing the game until he got to HS. He was a soccer player growing up in Jamaica, not a basketball player. Compared with Patrick's maturation and level of experience, that year does mean a lot. But it's not just about experience. Patton was given the redshirt year year to build up his body by adding weight and strength. At that age, one extra year to develop physically makes a world of difference.

You're on a basketball forum, talking about his draft stock, calling him a sophomore. So, yes, you are calling him a sophomore in terms of basketball. Call him a redshirt freshman, if you must, and I actually agree with that designation. Still, it is foolish to call him a sophomore on a basketball forum because he is done with most of his introductory classes in school. The Ewing comparison that Scoscox made was just for fun to show some similarities between a Hall of Famer and a redshirt freshman. You can criticize that if you want, and I don't really care, as I didn't make the comparison, but it wasn't meant to be taken that seriously.

Also, a player's need for weightlifting and conditioning is generally pretty low on the list of priorities for an NBA front office. They have elite facilities and expert trainers, and the players can devote all the time they need to improving their bodies. In that realm, what NBA scouts actually care about is if a player has the frame to add muscle and bulk (Patton does) and if they have already shown the ability to do so to a degree (he has).

Okay. Thanks.

[Bill Marsh]

The thing I'd like to see more out of from Patton is rebounding. I realize the offensive boards won't be there for him as much because Creighton makes basically all their shots, but to be a truly dominant big he need to start to clean up better on the defensive end. Not that 6.4 rebounds per game is by any means bad, but I'd expect a guy his size, where he's almost always the tallest man on the court, to be a double double machine.

His defensive rebounding rate is 20.7% of opponents' misses, putting him at #6 in the Big East. That's really good. Not elite, but really good. The problem with using rebounds per game is that it's a raw statistic. Patton only plays 25 minutes per game and his team doesn't force a lot of misses (no more than the D1 average), so there are fewer total rebounding opportunities for him than for some other players.

Patton's minutes are on the rise, though, so we should see the raw rebounding numbers go up to.

I think another factor in support of your point is that Creighton takes a lot of 3's. When those shots miss, the ball tends to kick out for long rebounds, so a big man under the basket is not in good position to get those rebounds.

I made the same assumption you did about his numbers improving with increased minutes, but the evidence isn't there to support it. For example, he's averaged 31 mph over his past 4 games (ORU, AZ State, SHU, Villanova), but his rebounds average has remained at 6.5 rpg. There were 3 games earlier in the season when he played about 30 minutes per game in each, but his rebounds average was 6.0 for those 3 games (Wiscy, Ole Miss, Buffalo). I think the problem with my assumption that his rebound numbers would improve with increased playing time is that I didn't account for the fact that he'll be facing a higher level of competition in conference player than most of what he saw in pre-conference play. Coincidentally, the 7 games in which he's already played around 30 minutes have mostly been against teams from power conferences, so they're probably a good indication of what we can expect going forward unless he elevates his game, which is certainly possible.

[XUFan09]

The thing I'd like to see more out of from Patton is rebounding. I realize the offensive boards won't be there for him as much because Creighton makes basically all their shots, but to be a truly dominant big he need to start to clean up better on the defensive end. Not that 6.4 rebounds per game is by any means bad, but I'd expect a guy his size, where he's almost always the tallest man on the court, to be a double double machine.

His defensive rebounding rate is 20.7% of opponents' misses, putting him at #6 in the Big East. That's really good. Not elite, but really good. The problem with using rebounds per game is that it's a raw statistic. Patton only plays 25 minutes per game and his team doesn't force a lot of misses (no more than the D1 average), so there are fewer total rebounding opportunities for him than for some other players.

Patton's minutes are on the rise, though, so we should see the raw rebounding numbers go up to.

I think another factor in support of your point is that Creighton takes a lot of 3's. When those shots miss, the ball tends to kick out for long rebounds, so a big man under the basket is not in good position to get those rebounds.

I made the same assumption you did about his numbers improving with increased minutes, but the evidence isn't there to support it. For example, he's averaged 31 mph over his past 4 games (ORU, AZ State, SHU, Villanova), but his rebounds average has remained at 6.5 rpg. There were 3 games earlier in the season when he played about 30 minutes per game in each, but his rebounds average was 6.0 for those 3 games (Wiscy, Ole Miss, Buffalo). I think the problem with my assumption that his rebound numbers would improve with increased playing time is that I didn't account for the fact that he'll be facing a higher level of competition in conference player than most of what he saw in pre-conference play. Coincidentally, the 7 games in which he's already played around 30 minutes have mostly been against teams from power conferences, so they're probably a good indication of what we can expect going forward unless he elevates his game, which is certainly possible.

Yeah, the style also comes into play, but Creighton actually doesn't shoot a lot of threes. They are ranked 205th in the ratio of three-point attempts to total field goal attempts. Just when they shoot them, they make them at a higher rate than anyone in the country. Still, his offensive rebounding rate isn't awful; it's actually pretty good (7.1%, 15th in the Big East).

Yeah, it will be interesting to see how he does with steady competition. He did do a good job on the glass against Wisconsin and against NC State. Pulling down 9 rebounds in 33 minutes against Seton Hall was actually really good too, though notching a big 0 on the offensive glass was pretty poor, regardless of whether you're going up against Delgado and Sanogo. His total rebounding against Villanova (8) in 28 minutes was good, but he was probably a bit below his defensive rebounding rate. Obviously, this a small sample as there have only been two conference games so far, so we will have to see how this plays out.

[hoopseinstein23]

I think it does not make sense to compare Patton to Ewing. Ewing was never this good. In Fact Ewing played like a scared kid, falling away from the basket against guys like Akeem, who owned him. Patton is a megastar in the making, a young kareem.

[DeadHeadHoya]

I think it does not make sense to compare Patton to Ewing. Ewing was never this good. In Fact Ewing played like a scared kid, falling away from the basket against guys like Akeem, who owned him. Patton is a megastar in the making, a young kareem.

you are an idiot

[cu blujs]

I also point out that CU uses Patton as the secondary defender when teams drive into the paint (which tends to happen somewhat regularly since we are still not great at stopping that). He is attempting to block or alter shots when guys get into the heart of the paint. That will take him out of rebounding position many times. We rely on the guard/forward to rotate down on Patton's guy (which often puts a smaller person trying to block out opposing bigs and leads to getting jumped over for rebounds on occasion). I think Mac is willing to live with giving up some of those in order to use Patton defensively in that manner. And, he still has a little ways to go in developing the size and strength to keep from getting pushed out of position. That will come with more maturity and work in the weight room (although he certainly doesn't want to get too big and lose his mobility).

[sciencejay]

All of this Ewing vs Patton stuff is stupid. Different players, different eras. The only similarities are that they both play(ed) in the BEast and they are both 7 footers.

JP is a player with a ton of NBA potential. I have argued to friends that I really hope he comes back at least one more year for reasons many here have stated. He needs to put on some weight, continue to increase his fitness, improve his understanding of the game, and (I think) improve his free throw shooting (obviously there have been a ton of NBA centers that watch the last couple of minutes of each game because their FT% is sucky).

I agree with those who have posted that his current limitations will not deter NBA GMs. Solid 7 footers are not a dime a dozen, so they are more inclined to take a risk in the draft. Importantly, JP has tremendous hands and his footwork is excellent for a guy his size and age, and GMs are noticing. You can put weight on a skinny guy, but you can't take a guy that has rock hands and stumbles around everywhere and turn him into Hakeem Olajuwon. One 'Jays insider' I know told me that there have been at least a 'few' NBA scouts at all of our games this season. Without a doubt he should test the waters to see what his prospects are.

Certainly I'd like to see him stay because the Jays will be better with him than without, but more importantly, I think there are a number of young guys that leave early and then either get sent to the D league or end up in Europe and don't ever really get that NBA career opportunity for which they left school early. They are away from home and don't have their support system with them. Crowds are small (D league) or he doesn't speak the language. Maybe they get down and don't work as hard and then things don't work out. That's on the player, but it's easier to end up that way if the player is younger and less mature and has farther to go to make the NBA. However, if he can be certain he'll be a first rounder, then he'll get a guaranteed contract and could endow his life with that 3-year deal if he is smart. Tough decision--short term vs long term--for such a young guy. I hope he has a good support system that he trusts and listens to when it comes time to make a final decision.

[hoopseinstein23]

The Biggest surprise is that there are people who want to compare a real talent with Ewing. He was a solid average player. DeadheadHoya Im not sure if you have had a head injury or whether you are a moronic Mongoloid but the truth is Patton has the talent to be a phenomenal Star. He runs the court as good as any 7 footer in the NCAA. Villanova exposed some of his weakness but he is learning every game.

[Bill Marsh]

I also point out that CU uses Patton as the secondary defender when teams drive into the paint (which tends to happen somewhat regularly since we are still not great at stopping that). He is attempting to block or alter shots when guys get into the heart of the paint. That will take him out of rebounding position many times. We rely on the guard/forward to rotate down on Patton's guy (which often puts a smaller person trying to block out opposing bigs and leads to getting jumped over for rebounds on occasion). I think Mac is willing to live with giving up some of those in order to use Patton defensively in that manner. And, he still has a little ways to go in developing the size and strength to keep from getting pushed out of position. That will come with more maturity and work in the weight room (although he certainly doesn't want to get too big and lose his mobility).

Thanks for the insight. Your explanation makes a lot of sense.

If that's their strategy, they should revisit it. Patton doesn't block enough blocked shots to justify giving up the rebounds. And their field goal percentage defense is mediocre at best, suggesting that the intimidation approach isn't getting the desired results either. They are getting outrebounded as a team, so the first thing that should be done is to get Parron back in position to be an effective rebounder