Top 10 NCAA Tournament resumes

[stever20]

I'm sorry that you think that Creighton's OOC schedule is so wonderful. The teams that Creighton is fighting for top seeds- in the projected top 9- all have top 71 OOC SOS. You are like an ostrich putting your head in the sand not wanting to hear that. Those teams are Nova, UNC, Kansas, Louisville, Duke, Virginia, Kentucky, and Baylor. 6 of the top 9 have top 20 OOC SOS. Those are the teams that Creighton will be fighting for NCAA seedings.

Also, the Big East isn't projected to be the top conference. Right now it's 3rd, and really not projected to be close.
Big 12 .5830
ACC .5816
Big East .5718

the only one of a team not in those 3 conferences in the projected top 9 is Kentucky. Who may be able to go like 16-2 or 17-1 in the SEC.

So all of that is why I think the upper limit for Creighton is lower than any of the other teams. Nothing against Creighton- just they should have scheduled much stronger. Of course, I don't know that McDermott knew he'd have this juggernaut this season.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Still waiting on the teams that you'd like to list ahead of CU, Stever.

[Jet915]

Stever having a bad day so far .....

[stever20]

Still waiting on the teams that you'd like to list ahead of CU, Stever.

well just in the Big East I would say Nova and Butler. outside the Big East- I'd take Kentucky with today's win over UNC along with Michigan St. Big game for them on Wed vs Louisville. Baylor obviously. Gonzaga with not only the win over Arizona, but also Florida and Iowa St. UCLA with the win over Kentucky and also wins over Texas A&M, Michigan, and Ohio St. So there's about 7 real easy just off the top of the head. I mean, there's a reason why even now with the RPI, Creighton is down to #11.

Creighton has been great(up until today)- but against pretty mediocre opponents. I mean even the RPI now has their SOS down to 84. Only 4 of their 11 opponents have a winning record right now. Their opponents are 54-43 so far when not playing Creighton(vs d1 schools). By comparison- Butler's opponents are 59-41. 7 of Butlers 11 opponents have winning records. And Vermont will be #8.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Still waiting on the teams that you'd like to list ahead of CU, Stever.

well just in the Big East I would say Nova and Butler. outside the Big East- I'd take Kentucky with today's win over UNC along with Michigan St. Big game for them on Wed vs Louisville. Baylor obviously. Gonzaga with not only the win over Arizona, but also Florida and Iowa St. UCLA with the win over Kentucky and also wins over Texas A&M, Michigan, and Ohio St. So there's about 7 real easy just off the top of the head. I mean, there's a reason why even now with the RPI, Creighton is down to #11.

Creighton has been great(up until today)- but against pretty mediocre opponents. I mean even the RPI now has their SOS down to 84. Only 4 of their 11 opponents have a winning record right now. Their opponents are 54-43 so far when not playing Creighton(vs d1 schools). By comparison- Butler's opponents are 59-41. 7 of Butlers 11 opponents have winning records. And Vermont will be #8.

First things first, until yesterday there was NO WAY you could have justified UK ahead of The Jays. Your comments from last week is what we're focusing on.

Second, only you could debate a top 10 list and provide only 7 other names as justification for exclusion of a BE team. I've already questioned the UK selection. So where are the other 3-4 teams that you feel warrant to bump CU out? And remember yesterday's results do not factor in.

Stop with what's projected and what's not and just tell me: at that specific point in time which teams, in your opinion, deserved to have made that list over Creighton. Thx.

[Savannah Jay]

I'll use CBS ranking as an example. #1 SOS is Nebraska at 4 wins and 5 loses. so what the heck are we talking about here?

So who exactly from Creighton's schedule is going to be a surefire NCAA tourney team? Right now they have 1.

Give me Butler's schedule any day of the week. And if they beat Indiana, I'll take Butler at 11-1 with wins over Arizona, Indiana, Cincy, Northwestern, and Utah any day of the week over Creighton at 12-0(remember D2 Truman St doesn't count)- with a win over Wisconsin. What's their next best win? NC State(in a game that would get discounted due to who was missing for NC State)? Plain W/L record just isn't an absolute determinant for me. Hopefully McDermott will actually start to schedule tougher next year.

Creighton's mediocre OOC is going to hurt their seeding come postseason, unless Creighton goes like 16-2 or something like that in the conference.

And Butler's great OOC is going to really help them out come postseason.

I am going to beat this dead damn horse one more time...you actually identified Utah as one of Butler's strong OOC wins. Sensing, since I did not get a response to my inquiry about Northwestern and Utah's RPI compared to NC State and Ole Miss, I thought I'd check. Did you know, Stever, that Utah's RPI is hovering around the 200 mark right now (196 on CBS). Northwestern's is 35. Both Ole Miss (40) and NC State (39) are comparable to Northwestern right now and they "smoke" Utah. What's more, Creighton foes Wisconsin, Nebraska, Akron, and Buffalo are all ahead of Utah in RPI right now...and ORU (214) isn't much below Utah.

This is why we (I use the term "we" based on comments made by others about your "analyses," not because I am their official spokesman) struggle with your opinions. You pick and choose what criteria fits your argument and, if none does, you make it anyway.

[stever20]

I'll use CBS ranking as an example. #1 SOS is Nebraska at 4 wins and 5 loses. so what the heck are we talking about here?

So who exactly from Creighton's schedule is going to be a surefire NCAA tourney team? Right now they have 1.

Give me Butler's schedule any day of the week. And if they beat Indiana, I'll take Butler at 11-1 with wins over Arizona, Indiana, Cincy, Northwestern, and Utah any day of the week over Creighton at 12-0(remember D2 Truman St doesn't count)- with a win over Wisconsin. What's their next best win? NC State(in a game that would get discounted due to who was missing for NC State)? Plain W/L record just isn't an absolute determinant for me. Hopefully McDermott will actually start to schedule tougher next year.

Creighton's mediocre OOC is going to hurt their seeding come postseason, unless Creighton goes like 16-2 or something like that in the conference.

And Butler's great OOC is going to really help them out come postseason.

I am going to beat this dead damn horse one more time...you actually identified Utah as one of Butler's strong OOC wins. Sensing, since I did not get a response to my inquiry about Northwestern and Utah's RPI compared to NC State and Ole Miss, I thought I'd check. Did you know, Stever, that Utah's RPI is hovering around the 200 mark right now (196 on CBS). Northwestern's is 35. Both Ole Miss (40) and NC State (39) are comparable to Northwestern right now and they "smoke" Utah. What's more, Creighton foes Wisconsin, Nebraska, Akron, and Buffalo are all ahead of Utah in RPI right now...and ORU (214) isn't much below Utah.

This is why we (I use the term "we" based on comments made by others about your "analyses," not because I am their official spokesman) struggle with your opinions. You pick and choose what criteria fits your argument and, if none does, you make it anyway.

RPI is still awfully early to use. And will for a while.

In Ken Pom-
Butler's top 100 wins- #46 Northwestern, #80 Vandy, #20 Arizona, #65 Utah, #18 Cincy, #16 Indiana. So 3 top 25 wins, 4 top 50 wins, and 6 top 100 wins
Creighton's top 100 wins- #10 Wisconsin, #59 NC State, #95 Ole Miss, #90 Akron, #88 Nebraska. 1 top 25 win, 1 top 50 win, 5 top 100 wins.

[stever20]

oh and if you want to use RPI.....

Creighton 2 top 50 wins. 34 NC State and 41 Ole Miss.
Butler has 3 top 50 wins. 36 Arizona, 38 Northwestern, and 49 Cincy.

Creighton has 3 51-100 wins. 54 Wisconsin, 72 Akron, and 82 Nebraska
Butler has 3 51-100 wins. 65 Indiana, 85 Vandy, and 98 Bucknell

Butler will be adding another top 100 win on Wednesday vs #85 Vermont.

Oh and Utah, they'll get a huge jump this week as they are the favorite to win the Diamond Head classic which will give them 3 neutral site wins and improve their SOS considerably.

[Savannah Jay]

I understand RPIs are raw...but it gives some very basic tool to compare teams that haven't played each other, right?

And since Butler had not beaten Indiana yet when the article was written and this discussion started, it is not germane to this part of the discussion. So prior to Butler's very huge win this weekend, both Creighton and Butler had 5 top 100 wins (whether you use KenPom or RPI)...but Creighton didn't lose to Indiana State (you can fill in the RPI and Ken Pom numbers...it doesn't really matter at this point because I know it's not good). So it's not really that unthinkable that someone not named Stever would put Creighton's resume a little bit ahead of Butler's before this past weekend, which is what the writer did in his article. And, as I stated in my earlier comments, had Butler topped Indiana State, they would have (in my opinion) a top 5 tournament resume even before the Indiana win.

And if you feel this passionate about it, write to the dude who wrote the article. Maybe he'll care.

[stever20]

I understand RPIs are raw...but it gives some very basic tool to compare teams that haven't played each other, right?

And since Butler had not beaten Indiana yet when the article was written and this discussion started, it is not germane to this part of the discussion. So prior to Butler's very huge win this weekend, both Creighton and Butler had 5 top 100 wins (whether you use KenPom or RPI)...but Creighton didn't lose to Indiana State (you can fill in the RPI and Ken Pom numbers...it doesn't really matter at this point because I know it's not good). So it's not really that unthinkable that someone not named Stever would put Creighton's resume a little bit ahead of Butler's before this past weekend, which is what the writer did in his article. And, as I stated in my earlier comments, had Butler topped Indiana State, they would have (in my opinion) a top 5 tournament resume even before the Indiana win.

And if you feel this passionate about it, write to the dude who wrote the article. Maybe he'll care.

I think though that wins over Arizona and Cincy along with the other 3 good wins trumps what Creighton had even before last week. I mean- Butler's 5th best win #80 Vandy was better than 3 of Creighton's top 5 wins. And I would say especially given how the committee looked last year with a huge emphasis on good wins.