(1) Sunday Game 12/18 - psu v SJU

[EMT]

Do not be surprised if Mullin announces he is leaving after the season. You have to read between the lines. His house is up for sale, he is already a superstar NBA HOFer and very rich. He does not need this. He wanted to try coaching but he looks miserable out there...miserable. No doubt he is taking this VERY hard. He is an extremely competitive guy remember he cursed at the Fordham coach last year in the handshake line after he left his starters in and ran up the score. He also says he's still angry about losses to Georgetown from his days as a SJ player. He is the opposite of Steve Lavin who would laugh after blowout losses. He takes the losses personally. I guarantee you it's at the very least crossing his mind about leaving and I can't blame him. He is realizing that being a head coach in a major basketball school is wayyyyy more complicated and daunting than he expected. Look at his face each game and you can just hear him thinking that to himself with his expressions. I love the guy, but he is in over his head and he knows it. If he keeps losing he will not let the program suffer, he seems to be the type to say "I tried and I failed so instead of letting the program suffer I decided to walk away, it was a great experience but I'm not cut out for coaching".

There you have it, folks. Armchair psychiatry at its fines. Hooper just psychoanalyzed a man he's never even met. Isn't there a law against practicing without a license?

Didn't you just define the whole existence of message boards? This one is actually more level headed than most.

[Edrick]

Who knows if he just leaves voluntarily but it's a foregone conclusion that players will. There are reasons ($$$) that Mullin would go down with the ship, that doesn't apply to the players that can go somewhere less toxic.

[SJHooper]

Lol Bill...correct I am no psychiatrist, though it's funny... I do work with one and I am employed as a psychologist, though in a school setting FWIW. My psychoanalysis of Mullin admittedly is based on a lot of assumption from my part, but there are also rumblings from insiders that there is a solid chance he will willingly leave after this year assuming a miracle doesn't happen turning the season around (which would be terrible for the conference btw). Let's look at the context here...1) Sold his house 2) Slice left immediately...that is a major red flag especially considering they are great friends 3) Sima transferred 4) Yakwe's advisor has been asking Mullin why he is not progressing 5) We are somehow doing worse than last year which was supposed to be rock bottom not only for the Mullin era, but for our entire basketball history 6) Zero progression and if anything, players look more lost as the season goes on which is the opposite of typical. Not even mentioned is watching Mullin during games. I noticed the same look on Sima's face just before he transferred and Mullin looks no different. I see defeated men who are in shock and just do not have answers. Being an NBA HOFer does not make you a good coach and we had to learn the hard way. Now with the lesson learned, we must move on. You don't just hold onto a failed coach for the sake of comfort and fear of change. If the coach fails, he failed.

Also not sure why many are implying I meant he will be fired. Not at all. If he's gone, it's by his choice. And that is much more likely than what many think assuming no significant progress is made this season. The Mullin apologists were the same apologists for Lavin. It's like having a girlfriend you know you don't really see yourself being long term with. You know it won't work out, but you don't break up because you are comfortable. If you know it won't work, you have to end it and the sooner the better. Wasting more time knowing Mullin is not the answer is literally just throwing another 2-3 seasons in the toilet before they even begin. Pretty sure most of us know deep down he is not the answer and the sooner we bring in an experienced coach, the better. Let's get someone new and start another rebuild so we can get these painful years over with as soon as possible.

By the way, to be honest I would target Hurley and McKillop the hardest. I forgot about McKillop. If we can get one of them and also keep Matt A, that would be huge. We would still have solid recruiting and we'd also have a real experienced head coach who knows how to develop players and run a team.

[BigEast1]

SJHooper, you do realize that the house being sold was BEFORE the season started (http://www.realtor.com/news/celebrity-r ... t-mansion/). Slice left supposedly b/c he was unhappy with his role & b/c Mullin didn't like the way he treated the players during practice, not sure how that equates to Mullin leaving. Sima transferred, um yes b/c Owens is getting more playing time & they have a 7 footer stud coming in next year. Yawke's advisor has a conversation with the head coach, so now the coach is leaving? Not sure how any of your points even come close to being a sign that Mullin is leaving at the end of the year. Yes the team is having a lousy year but given the recruits that Mullin has lined up next year (Justin Simon transfer from Arizona & Marvin Clark, transfer from Michigan St), I have a feeling Mullin might just want to see this through.

[Bill Marsh]

Lol Bill...correct I am no psychiatrist, though it's funny... I do work with one and I am employed as a psychologist, though in a school setting FWIW. My psychoanalysis of Mullin admittedly is based on a lot of assumption from my part, but there are also rumblings from insiders that there is a solid chance he will willingly leave after this year assuming a miracle doesn't happen turning the season around (which would be terrible for the conference btw). Let's look at the context here...1) Sold his house 2) Slice left immediately...that is a major red flag especially considering they are great friends 3) Sima transferred 4) Yakwe's advisor has been asking Mullin why he is not progressing 5) We are somehow doing worse than last year which was supposed to be rock bottom not only for the Mullin era, but for our entire basketball history 6) Zero progression and if anything, players look more lost as the season goes on which is the opposite of typical. Not even mentioned is watching Mullin during games. I noticed the same look on Sima's face just before he transferred and Mullin looks no different. I see defeated men who are in shock and just do not have answers. Being an NBA HOFer does not make you a good coach and we had to learn the hard way. Now with the lesson learned, we must move on. You don't just hold onto a failed coach for the sake of comfort and fear of change. If the coach fails, he failed.

Also not sure why many are implying I meant he will be fired. Not at all. If he's gone, it's by his choice. And that is much more likely than what many think assuming no significant progress is made this season. The Mullin apologists were the same apologists for Lavin. It's like having a girlfriend you know you don't really see yourself being long term with. You know it won't work out, but you don't break up because you are comfortable. If you know it won't work, you have to end it and the sooner the better. Wasting more time knowing Mullin is not the answer is literally just throwing another 2-3 seasons in the toilet before they even begin. Pretty sure most of us know deep down he is not the answer and the sooner we bring in an experienced coach, the better. Let's get someone new and start another rebuild so we can get these painful years over with as soon as possible.

By the way, to be honest I would target Hurley and McKillop the hardest. I forgot about McKillop. If we can get one of them and also keep Matt A, that would be huge. We would still have solid recruiting and we'd also have a real experienced head coach who knows how to develop players and run a team.

Hooper, thanks for the reply. I appreciate your sense of humor and that you took my post in the spirit in which it was intended. I realize that we have a few things in common. Not only are we both big hoops fanatics and especially love college basketball Big East style, but. In a former life I was also a school psychologist. How about that?

I respect your take on things at St John's. I also have some people I talk to there although I'm nowhere near as close to the program as you are. I remember another situation about 10 years or so ago when there was a lot of angst at St John's about a coaching hire. Half of the community wanted another Manhattan coach, Bobby Gonzalez, and the other half hated the idea. The inside word was that Matt Doherty would get the job because he was connected. Neither got the job, and judging by their later experiences, it was probably a good thing for SJU in both cases. My point is that fans get heated about coaches. At a certain point, any alternative looks better than what you have - until that hypothetical alternative. Ecomes reality. I think you just have to be patient and let the Mullin thing play out for a reasonable amount of time. Going through a rebuilding process is hard on everyone, but this wouldn't be the first case where a program suffered through a couple of disastrous seasons before things came together.

Just a couple of observations. There is no doubt McKillop is a great coach and a native New Yorker, highly respected within the industry. This is not the first time his name has come up in connection with the St John's job, so I suspect that there have been conversations with him in the past and one party of the other wasn't interested. Furthermore, he'll be 67 in July, not exactly the age when a man decides to take on a new challenge - or the age at which a school likes to hire a coach for a high energy turnaround job for which they would like a long term commitment.

With regard to Slice, despite his high school friendship with Mullin going back many years, it may be that he didn't bring as much to the table as was expected. His reputation was built on his recruiting prowess at Pitt, but rumors are that he wanted to be valued more as a kind of associate head coach but didn't get Mullin's ear to the extent he thought he would. Judging by his lack of success at Manhattan, maybe he just didn't have the coaching expertise both in practice and in games that some thought he would have. His departure might reflect on Mullin, but I'm guessing that it reflects more on him.

Mullin was always known as an incredibly hard worker as a player. When he faced adversity with his drinking, he confronted it head on and reshaped his life. This guy doesn't strike me as a quitter. It takes great strength of character to retain command of a program when it's going through times as hard as these. We'll learn about Mullin's character over the next several months.

Keep those posts coming!

[billyjack]

Give Mullin a few more years, and if he then decides to move on, get Billy Donovan.
By that time, Donovan will be bored with the NBA. SJU and NYC would be perfect for him.

[stever20]

Give Mullin a few more years, and if he then decides to move on, get Billy Donovan.
By that time, Donovan will be bored with the NBA. SJU and NYC would be perfect for him.

You do understand that if Billy Donovan comes back to college, it's going to be a much better program than St John's. I wouldn't be surprised if he replaced Pitino frankly at Louisville.

[SJHooper]

Bill, that's too funny...what a small world. Such a tiny sub-field in the psychology world as well. I understand rebuilds are exhausting and will test even the most loyal fans, but the truth is that if you are on the right track doing so, there will be indications backed by evidence. For example, when Lavin came he inherited an experienced group. He actually exceeded expectations with them. After that, we knew it would be a rough year with that huge freshmen class even if it was #2 in the country. They finished 13-19 (6-12) in the OLD Big East. All freshmen! A new coach! For comparison, Mullin came and we went I believe 8-24 (1-17) in a good but less competitive conference than it was. Lavin's 2nd year he finished over .500, a clear improvement. The following year, he won 20 games. So that was a clear trajectory 13, 17, then 20 wins. Lavin's issue was that his teams were very late starters and severely underperformed in the post season for the ones they did make. I don't think SJ won any Big East or NCAA tourney games in his 5 years as coach. Just making the tourney is not good enough when you had the #2 class in the country. They should have been a Sweet 16 team. So that's why he was fired...got off to bad starts, only picked it up at the end of the season, then if he made a tourney he bowed out immediately. Let's compare to Mullin...he won 8 games his first year with some very experienced players, though he gets a pass. Fine, year 2 he finally gets his guys and he's expected to make a significant leap right? A reasonable expectation would be 13-15 wins in year 2. At 5-7 and about to be 5-8, where are the wins coming from? The only thing I can see potentially is sweeping DePaul and even that may be daunting. Let's assume we do sweep. That's likely 7-25 (2-16). How can you explain this regression assuming it happens which it is projected to? To see not only a lack of progression, but rather a regression is very concerning. There are some who say it's not the coaching, we just don't have any big men. Ok, well next year we will have Clark, possibly Brown, and likely someone else not on the team yet. If Mullin wants to continue coaching next year and we don't see an absolutely massive improvement in the wins column, every other excuse has been used. It's amazing to me how much people love saying "relax we are young!" as if we should expect single digit win seasons until they become seniors then magically win 30 games after winning 8, 7, and 9 previously. It's nutty. Penn State is a top 10 YOUNGEST team in the country. I believe we are #2. They had absolutely no issue disposing of us and looking like a well-oiled machine despite their youth. That excuse is gone after PSU.

I would be willing to bet good money that Mullin would not even lead us to more than 15 wins if he even stays for next season. I mean, do we have to give Mullin 20 years to make an NIT? Why do we have to be so patient when it's clearly not working? My hope is that Mullin walks away and goes back to being the godlike figure he is at SJ...as a former player. IMO the quicker we put this brief era in the rearview, the better. For the life of me, I just cannot fathom anyone actually expecting this to suddenly turn around next season. It's not like we have 4 top 10 players coming in. If we did then I'd say, hang on let's see what they can do because that can change a program. But the truth is, the BEST case scenario for Mullin next season would be 15 wins and he should be at 20+ with the talent given by next year. I had a great sense with Lavin that something wasn't right fundamentally with Lavin teams and I never felt confident we could win a tournament game in the Big East or NCAA's. We never rose to the occasion. I feel strongly that Mullin will not be able to take us where we need to go. If we were willing to give him a 25 year window then MAYBE, but the truth is if he can't produce in a real way in year 3, we know what will happen.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Give Mullin a few more years, and if he then decides to move on, get Billy Donovan.
By that time, Donovan will be bored with the NBA. SJU and NYC would be perfect for him.

Now THAT would be something! Or maybe Slick Ricky P. gets booted out of L'ville with another embarrassing event... If Mullin doesn't work out, there's got to be someone out there, no?

[Bill Marsh]

Bill, that's too funny...what a small world. Such a tiny sub-field in the psychology world as well. I understand rebuilds are exhausting and will test even the most loyal fans, but the truth is that if you are on the right track doing so, there will be indications backed by evidence. For example, when Lavin came he inherited an experienced group. He actually exceeded expectations with them. After that, we knew it would be a rough year with that huge freshmen class even if it was #2 in the country. They finished 13-19 (6-12) in the OLD Big East. All freshmen! A new coach! For comparison, Mullin came and we went I believe 8-24 (1-17) in a good but less competitive conference than it was. Lavin's 2nd year he finished over .500, a clear improvement. The following year, he won 20 games. So that was a clear trajectory 13, 17, then 20 wins. Lavin's issue was that his teams were very late starters and severely underperformed in the post season for the ones they did make. I don't think SJ won any Big East or NCAA tourney games in his 5 years as coach. Just making the tourney is not good enough when you had the #2 class in the country. They should have been a Sweet 16 team. So that's why he was fired...got off to bad starts, only picked it up at the end of the season, then if he made a tourney he bowed out immediately. Let's compare to Mullin...he won 8 games his first year with some very experienced players, though he gets a pass. Fine, year 2 he finally gets his guys and he's expected to make a significant leap right? A reasonable expectation would be 13-15 wins in year 2. At 5-7 and about to be 5-8, where are the wins coming from? The only thing I can see potentially is sweeping DePaul and even that may be daunting. Let's assume we do sweep. That's likely 7-25 (2-16). How can you explain this regression assuming it happens which it is projected to? To see not only a lack of progression, but rather a regression is very concerning. There are some who say it's not the coaching, we just don't have any big men. Ok, well next year we will have Clark, possibly Brown, and likely someone else not on the team yet. If Mullin wants to continue coaching next year and we don't see an absolutely massive improvement in the wins column, every other excuse has been used. It's amazing to me how much people love saying "relax we are young!" as if we should expect single digit win seasons until they become seniors then magically win 30 games after winning 8, 7, and 9 previously. It's nutty. Penn State is a top 10 YOUNGEST team in the country. I believe we are #2. They had absolutely no issue disposing of us and looking like a well-oiled machine despite their youth. That excuse is gone after PSU.

I would be willing to bet good money that Mullin would not even lead us to more than 15 wins if he even stays for next season. I mean, do we have to give Mullin 20 years to make an NIT? Why do we have to be so patient when it's clearly not working? My hope is that Mullin walks away and goes back to being the godlike figure he is at SJ...as a former player. IMO the quicker we put this brief era in the rearview, the better. For the life of me, I just cannot fathom anyone actually expecting this to suddenly turn around next season. It's not like we have 4 top 10 players coming in. If we did then I'd say, hang on let's see what they can do because that can change a program. But the truth is, the BEST case scenario for Mullin next season would be 15 wins and he should be at 20+ with the talent given by next year. I had a great sense with Lavin that something wasn't right fundamentally with Lavin teams and I never felt confident we could win a tournament game in the Big East or NCAA's. We never rose to the occasion. I feel strongly that Mullin will not be able to take us where we need to go. If we were willing to give him a 25 year window then MAYBE, but the truth is if he can't produce in a real way in year 3, we know what will happen.

Maybe St John's should have kept Lavin, eh?