(1) Wednesday BE Game - uic at DePaul...

[kayako]

We can absorb 2 subpar programs without too much damage, but man wouldn't decent programs in Chicago and NYC do wonders for our league. The presence in those 2 markets with consistent tournament caliber teams would be huge just for recruiting purpose. I think those 2 athletic departments are lacking energy atm. Maybe that was the aim with Mullin hire, but it remains to be seen if it'll work out.

yeah. Add to that right now our 3rd lowest team is Georgetown in both KP and RPI. So 3 huge areas with the 3 worst teams.

If they beat Syracuse, I am back on the wagon. I think their rebounding problem is easily correctable, and if JT3 can't get a decent PG play this year, at least you have Waters next season. The coach deserves some credit for getting the team to stop fouling more than any team in the country.

[kayako]

We can absorb 2 subpar programs without too much damage, but man wouldn't decent programs in Chicago and NYC do wonders for our league. The presence in those 2 markets with consistent tournament caliber teams would be huge just for recruiting purpose. I think those 2 athletic departments are lacking energy atm. Maybe that was the aim with Mullin hire, but it remains to be seen if it'll work out.

I don't have an alternate solution for Chicago, but I could troll the St. John's fans on here and suggest it's time for the Big East to market Seton Hall as it's New York team . MSG would probably actually be easier for a lot of SHU fans to get to than the Rock, so maybe move some of their big games there haha.

In all seriousness though, I want St. John's to get good (though obviously not at Seton Hall's expense). These two programs have basically never been good at the same time which is disappointing because it prevents this local rivalry from reaching it's true potential, which I think can be very high.

I wasn't around when Seton Hall peaked in the late 80s and early 90s. Was NYC warming up to the Pirates? I lived in North Jersey for a couple of years, and as far as I can tell, there was almost no interest in college athletics.

[SJHooper]

We can absorb 2 subpar programs without too much damage, but man wouldn't decent programs in Chicago and NYC do wonders for our league. The presence in those 2 markets with consistent tournament caliber teams would be huge just for recruiting purpose. I think those 2 athletic departments are lacking energy atm. Maybe that was the aim with Mullin hire, but it remains to be seen if it'll work out.

I don't have an alternate solution for Chicago, but I could troll the St. John's fans on here and suggest it's time for the Big East to market Seton Hall as it's New York team . MSG would probably actually be easier for a lot of SHU fans to get to than the Rock, so maybe move some of their big games there haha.

In all seriousness though, I want St. John's to get good (though obviously not at Seton Hall's expense). These two programs have basically never been good at the same time which is disappointing because it prevents this local rivalry from reaching it's true potential, which I think can be very high.

1. Seton Hall is way smaller than SJ...9,000 vs. 20,000 enrollment. Way smaller reach, much smaller alumni base.
2. Seton Hall is located in New Jersey, not NYC. Being close doesn't count. Not even in the same state. Many Jets/Giants fans also abhor the fact that they play in Jersey. They should be in New York state at the least and too bad the Upper West Side Stadium fell through.
3. Seton Hall has much less brand awareness.
4. Seton Hall has a whopping 10 NCAA tourney appearances. SJ has 29 (almost triple).
5. An 18 win SJ team would still get more press than a top 25 Seton Hall team.
6. St. John's is the ONLY major D1 basketball program actually located in NYC.

[Hall2012]

I wasn't around when Seton Hall peaked in the late 80s and early 90s. Was NYC warming up to the Pirates? I lived in North Jersey for a couple of years, and as far as I can tell, there was almost no interest in college athletics.

I was too young at the time really be able to give you an answer and I grew up in NJ as well, but my gut tells me no. A lot of Seton Hall alumni live and work in New York City, but I don't believe the city as a whole ever really rallied around them (with the possible exception of jumping on the 89 Final Four bandwagon). They played in the Meadowlands then, which was a royal pain to get to, especially during evening rush hour, so that discouraged New Yorkers from attending games. Plus, New Yorkers in general tend to stick their noses up at the thought of traveling to New Jersey in general. The obvious exception being for football games.

Now if you go back further, to the 40s and 50s, Seton Hall regularly played home games at Madison Square Garden and I believe reasonably well. That was the one era when Seton Hall and St. John's were both good at the same time.

[Bill Marsh]

I wasn't around when Seton Hall peaked in the late 80s and early 90s. Was NYC warming up to the Pirates? I lived in North Jersey for a couple of years, and as far as I can tell, there was almost no interest in college athletics.

I was too young at the time really be able to give you an answer and I grew up in NJ as well, but my gut tells me no. A lot of Seton Hall alumni live and work in New York City, but I don't believe the city as a whole ever really rallied around them (with the possible exception of jumping on the 89 Final Four bandwagon). They played in the Meadowlands then, which was a royal pain to get to, especially during evening rush hour, so that discouraged New Yorkers from attending games. Plus, New Yorkers in general tend to stick their noses up at the thought of traveling to New Jersey in general. The obvious exception being for football games.

Now if you go back further, to the 40s and 50s, Seton Hall regularly played home games at Madison Square Garden and I believe reasonably well. That was the one era when Seton Hall and St. John's were both good at the same time.

Unfortunately both also got caught up in the point shaving scandals at the time, which led to a down turn of both programs and NYC college basketball in general.

[Bill Marsh]

I think it is time to talk Relegation. Valpo is close enough to the Chicago market to keep the few Big East fans engaged. So let's swap DePaul for Valpo. Maybe they can hang with the rest of the Horizon. And I'm looking at Iona from the MAAC for St. Johns. Seriously.

As bad as my Johnnies have been, Iona wouldn't move the needle at all. The MAAC has no presence in the NYC area. They have some good academic schools like Marist, Manhattan, Quinnipiac, Fairfield, etc. but athletics are not even on the radar. I do agree that SJ has to get it going though, many of our fans come from the '85 era when we were legitimate. They aren't getting any younger and I fear that after they all go, SJ fans will go extinct unless they get it together fast. SJ reminds me of the Jets. To be so bad to mediocre for so long...it's actually hard to do. The law of averages comes around and gives teams a boost every so often that they are due, but having bad coaching and bad athletic directors will ensure that the law of averages never grants us success. I keep hearing "oh we just need better players, it's not Mullin". Really? Pretty sure we've had nothing but 4 and 5 star players the last 5-6 years and we have nothing to show for it. How much better can you get? 6 star? It's obviously the coaching that is at fault. Mullin's body language says it all. I guarantee you he gets into bed after these awful losses to bums, sighs, and contemplates whether coaching is even worth it. I will never fault SJ for taking a chance on him. He deserved one. But we need to realize that we are worse than we were last year with much better talent. That alone proves it's coaching. As talent improves, so does your record if you have an average to above average coach. If you don't have a coach, you can lose any game. My fear is not pulling the trigger on Mullin fast enough, giving him 6 years and just elongating the suffering and losing culture. Watching SJ is like ripping off a bandage excruciatingly slowly on a hairy arm. Just rip it off and be done with it. You can recover quicker...just rip it off and move on. No reason to make the suffering last.

Mediocre since the 1985 era? St John's has had plenty of success since then with high points being Elite 8's in 1991 and 1999, and a Big East championship in 2000.

Nothing but 4-5 star players in the last 5-6 years? Besides Jordan, who were the 5 star players?

[Bill Marsh]

Hey, thanks for the nice words Bill Marsh, but don't encourage me cuz then I may not ever shut up! It's all from memory, so I might have some details screwy. Though I did have to re-check the halftime score.

Harrison-Docks was injured and couldn't play. I think that's why Curington and Gage got so much run.

Forgot to mention UIC's cool uniforms. They actually stole the old DePaul design of the red-and-white alternating stripes at the collars and down the sides.

Also Dickie Simpkins gets some criticism, and yeah I'm biased for him, but I like the job he does behind the mike. He at least has fun and seems to enjoy himself, and keeps things light.

The play by play guy at times was confusing Garrett and Cain.

As far as DePaul and their future... at some point they will click. I think Leitao could be the guy to do it, because I keep coming back to knowing he was a Calhoun assistant, plus he had success in the past, and guys don't just forget how to coach.

I'm almost 50, so in the 40+ years that I've been watching sports, I've seen the pendulum swing back and forth several times in every sport with almost every team. So I can't help but think that St John's and DePaul are so close to turning the corner. Sometimes improvement is a slow process, and sometimes it arrives immediately. At some point maybe I'll compile a list and get more detailed on a bunch of unimaginably terrible teams turning into unimaginable success stories, but the list would include in the pro ranks the 49ers, Patriots, Braves, Red Sox, Indians, Devils and others... in college UConn of course, the Friars at times, Seton Hall at times, Miami of Fla in football...

Seeing how hard it is to turn a program around - sort of like turning the QE II around in mid-ocean - it makes me realize what an incredible job Pitino did with the Friars in his 2 short years in Peovidence. Boy, did I love those teams.

[Hall2012]

We can absorb 2 subpar programs without too much damage, but man wouldn't decent programs in Chicago and NYC do wonders for our league. The presence in those 2 markets with consistent tournament caliber teams would be huge just for recruiting purpose. I think those 2 athletic departments are lacking energy atm. Maybe that was the aim with Mullin hire, but it remains to be seen if it'll work out.

I don't have an alternate solution for Chicago, but I could troll the St. John's fans on here and suggest it's time for the Big East to market Seton Hall as it's New York team . MSG would probably actually be easier for a lot of SHU fans to get to than the Rock, so maybe move some of their big games there haha.

In all seriousness though, I want St. John's to get good (though obviously not at Seton Hall's expense). These two programs have basically never been good at the same time which is disappointing because it prevents this local rivalry from reaching it's true potential, which I think can be very high.

1. Seton Hall is way smaller than SJ...9,000 vs. 20,000 enrollment. Way smaller reach, much smaller alumni base.
2. Seton Hall is located in New Jersey, not NYC. Being close doesn't count. Not even in the same state. Many Jets/Giants fans also abhor the fact that they play in Jersey. They should be in New York state at the least and too bad the Upper West Side Stadium fell through.
3. Seton Hall has much less brand awareness.
4. Seton Hall has a whopping 10 NCAA tourney appearances. SJ has 29 (almost triple).
5. An 18 win SJ team would still get more press than a top 25 Seton Hall team.
6. St. John's is the ONLY major D1 basketball program actually located in NYC.

LOL! I even said it was just a trolling comment and it still made a Johnny freak out. But anyway:

1. Who cares?
2. Same media market, that's what counts. Villanova's not actually in Philadelphia, yet they're part of the Big 5 and get Philly coverage.
3. Interesting. Would you provide some data to back up your otherwise baseless claim?
4. Please, keep boring me with your stories from the 70's and 80's. Were you even alive yet? Also, 28 - 2002 was vacated.
5. Once again, can only considered a baseless claim until sufficient data is provided to back it up.
6. Congratulations.
7. What's your point?

[Demon22]

How about DePaul stops embarrassing this conference and actually makes a tournament once in the next decade...

We suck.

You got me. I admit it.

The thing is, there's so much legitimate criticism you can throw our way. If you were to suggest that they're incompetent, I'd be more or less on board. Lacking vision? Yup. Largely ignorant about what it takes to compete? I might even buy that.

But to suggest that no one cares? That they spend all their money on women's sports? That's crap. When was the last time Marquette made an $80 million investment in their basketball program? When was the last time they hired away a head coach from another school and made him one of the Top 10 highest-paid coaches in the country?

I get it - we're down, and you can't resist kicking us. That's your prerogative. But when you post lazy, hypocritical garbage about my school, I can and will call you on it.

[FenwayFriar]

How about DePaul stops embarrassing this conference and actually makes a tournament once in the next decade...

We suck.

You got me. I admit it.

The thing is, there's so much legitimate criticism you can throw our way. If you were to suggest that they're incompetent, I'd be more or less on board. Lacking vision? Yup. Largely ignorant about what it takes to compete? I might even buy that.

But to suggest that no one cares? That they spend all their money on women's sports? That's crap. When was the last time Marquette made an $80 million investment in their basketball program? When was the last time they hired away a head coach from another school and made him one of the Top 10 highest-paid coaches in the country?

I get it - we're down, and you can't resist kicking us. That's your prerogative. But when you post lazy, hypocritical garbage about my school, I can and will call you on it.

Not giving a $hit who is "right" or "wrong" in this "argument," we need more of this from DePaul fans. Tell your your Demon friends to hop on the board. We need more of you guys. Just because you're down doesn't mean you don't have a voice (just look at St. John's fans). Not surprisingly you guys have the least amount of posters here by far, but that shouldn't be the case. There are a lot of you guys who still care and know greener pastures will come eventually. You guys could be a huge part of this conference going forward if you turn it around, given the media market. Let's go!!