To SactownDog

[whiteandblue77]

Let me guess... yer 47 years old...

[Sactowndog]

Let me guess... yer 47 years old...

A little higher but not too bad a guess.

[hortle]

"Networks measure sucess and pay by ratings not results." Not entirely true. Why were Rutgers and Maryland added to the B1G? Rutgers had/has an atrocious football athletics program, and Maryland isn't a football power. However, both locations have TV sets - hence why the conference had such a big boon to its TV contract after adding Nebraska as well. The Big East has strong basketball programs in big cities (New York, Chicago, D.C., Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Omaha, Providence, etc.). Those are all very strong markets, all of which carry important outlets for Fox.

Aren't you making my point? The Big 10 added them for Ratings not performance on the field because it is ratings not performance that ultimately matters

People looking at the ratings on FS1/Fox are over-analyzing the effect it has on what it does to potential TV deals. FS1 is still a very new network, growing its brand and viewership. FS1 bought the Big East because it was a long-term investment that suited their short-term and long-term goals. Fox will continue to want the Big East (and B1G) to maintain an east coast presence that counters their west coast base.

Maybe but if you generate A10 ratings you will get A10 dollars. I have seen almost this exact same situation in the Mountain West and Football except here it is the Big East and basketball. Deja Vu all over again.

Finally, one of the greatest things about our conference is the admiration and respect each member has for one another. We were born, ironically, on being discarded. We weren't wanted because we weren't football. That, coupled with our urban markets, our basketball programs and our religious affiliations, makes us all brothers. I will root for Creighton, Xavier, Butler, Marquette, DePaul, Villanova, St. Johns, Georgetown, Providence, and Seton Hall in every OOC game possible, and for good competitive games in conference. We want success for one another, that's what makes our conference special in a time where college athletics is very much cut throat and take care of yourself (heck, just ask UConn this). Just because one may not understand that, doesn't make it wrong or bad for tv.
That's fine but it makes for boring league games. BTW I don't think Villanova and Georgetown are rooting too hard for each other

Looking forward to the Fresno State game, SactownDog. Should be an exciting matchup.
You're going to kick our a$$. Hopefully you won't run it up on my account.

he's saying its about your in with markets, how many tv sets have access to your channel. Spread your progeny as far as you can, and focus on the long term game of branding and viewership. This is definitely what Fox is thinking, and they sure as hell aren't readjusting such a trajectory based off analysis of a small sample size. You keep saying that you hope you're wrong. Do you? Anyone looking at the ratings of a 3 year old tv network competing against Disney/ESPN and saying we will receive A-10 money in the next go around of negotiations probably got a degree from somewhere like Wichita State. The product on the court is too good for any scenario you're trying to illustrate.

[whiteandblue77]

Let me guess... yer 47 years old...

A little higher but not too bad a guess.

Just a little Pomona "humor"
http://magazine.pomona.edu/pomoniana/2015/02/13/the-mystery-of-47/

Baptised Catholic but also Daoist and Pythagorean in my adult years (and I'm 47).

[hortle]

And newsflash buttercup, ESPN's ratings are suffering too. FS1 on the whole has established itself as a legitimate network. I was worried much like you at the start, but I couldn't be more optimistic about our relationship with Fox going forward

[Xavier4036]

[quote="Sactowndog"]

No I came on to discuss ratings and why something needed to be done. I just responded to the Creighton smack. [quote]

And your solution to the ratings is to add Witchita State and VCU? That isn't going to help anything.

The Big East already draws stronger ratings on FS1 than the PAC-12. And as someone else mentioned, Big East schools are on national TV nearly everygame. I don't think there is another conference that can say that. We've got a pretty good deal right now with FOX.

Bottom line, Witchita State isn't getting added to the Big East, nor should they. Just go away.

[Gopher+RamFan]

I don't know how you're defining their market, but state schools normally have the entire state as their market unless they only draw students from a limited segment of the state. VCU is not a commuter school. Virginia has a population of 8 million. That's a big market.

What markets The BE has or doesn't have is open for debate. Being physically located in a market doesn't mean that a school brings that market as we have seen time after time. Comparing a smaller, private, sectarian school in a big city with a school of 30,000 that has a statewide profile is comparing apples and oranges.

There's no way that VCU would rank 10th in market size in the BE. It's market is not restricted to Richmond.

I'm using DMA, and I accept your point that the reach of some schools, large public schools in particular, can exceed their DMA. After all, the Richmond DMA has 7.5x the number of TVs that Charlottesville does, and VCU obviously doesn't draw 7.5x the number of viewers as UVA. So if we consider the whole state of Virginia as one DMA, it would rank a solid 6th in the Big East.

Anyway, debating the best way to measure market size for colleges strays from my point that neither VCU nor WSU would be able to make a dent in the Big East's TV ratings. There are only a handful of blue bloods in the country that are single handedly capable of boosting a league's TV ratings and none of them are coming to the Big East.

Not a big fan of WSU, theyre lucky to have the Koch brothers subsidize their program.

I am a VCU fan, so if I could interject. VCU wouldn't boost the entire conferences ratings. However, the best way to judge what a media company would pay to show a program's games is to look current media rights deals. The same year Georgetown signed one with Fox Sports for 2 - 3Million/year (based on performance) Leerfield signed VCU to a $2.5 Million/year contract (10 yrs). Based on Georgetown's history/brand, I was expecting a wider gap.

[Sactowndog]

Let me guess... yer 47 years old...

A little higher but not too bad a guess.

Just a little Pomona "humor"
http://magazine.pomona.edu/pomoniana/2015/02/13/the-mystery-of-47/

Baptised Catholic but also Daoist and Pythagorean in my adult years (and I'm 47).

Where the heck did you find that? Quite the article to google. Have you ever been to the Claremont Colleges?

[Sactowndog]

"Networks measure sucess and pay by ratings not results." Not entirely true. Why were Rutgers and Maryland added to the B1G? Rutgers had/has an atrocious football athletics program, and Maryland isn't a football power. However, both locations have TV sets - hence why the conference had such a big boon to its TV contract after adding Nebraska as well. The Big East has strong basketball programs in big cities (New York, Chicago, D.C., Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Omaha, Providence, etc.). Those are all very strong markets, all of which carry important outlets for Fox.

Aren't you making my point? The Big 10 added them for Ratings not performance on the field because it is ratings not performance that ultimately matters

People looking at the ratings on FS1/Fox are over-analyzing the effect it has on what it does to potential TV deals. FS1 is still a very new network, growing its brand and viewership. FS1 bought the Big East because it was a long-term investment that suited their short-term and long-term goals. Fox will continue to want the Big East (and B1G) to maintain an east coast presence that counters their west coast base.

Maybe but if you generate A10 ratings you will get A10 dollars. I have seen almost this exact same situation in the Mountain West and Football except here it is the Big East and basketball. Deja Vu all over again.

Finally, one of the greatest things about our conference is the admiration and respect each member has for one another. We were born, ironically, on being discarded. We weren't wanted because we weren't football. That, coupled with our urban markets, our basketball programs and our religious affiliations, makes us all brothers. I will root for Creighton, Xavier, Butler, Marquette, DePaul, Villanova, St. Johns, Georgetown, Providence, and Seton Hall in every OOC game possible, and for good competitive games in conference. We want success for one another, that's what makes our conference special in a time where college athletics is very much cut throat and take care of yourself (heck, just ask UConn this). Just because one may not understand that, doesn't make it wrong or bad for tv.
That's fine but it makes for boring league games. BTW I don't think Villanova and Georgetown are rooting too hard for each other

Looking forward to the Fresno State game, SactownDog. Should be an exciting matchup.
You're going to kick our a$$. Hopefully you won't run it up on my account.

he's saying its about your in with markets, how many tv sets have access to your channel. Spread your progeny as far as you can, and focus on the long term game of branding and viewership. This is definitely what Fox is thinking, and they sure as hell aren't readjusting such a trajectory based off analysis of a small sample size. You keep saying that you hope you're wrong. Do you? Anyone looking at the ratings of a 3 year old tv network competing against Disney/ESPN and saying we will receive A-10 money in the next go around of negotiations probably got a degree from somewhere like Wichita State. The product on the court is too good for any scenario you're trying to illustrate.

Actually the Big 10 has very clear affinity model. They pick flagship states that allow fans to associate with that school as the representative of their state. Maryland and New Jersey (not a coincidence) bracket Pennsylvania and (if not for a sliver of Delaware) are adjacent to each other. The adjacency builds cross state rivalries and builds and us versus them internal divisional rivalry. They are also very subtly (or not so subtly) recreating the civil war with the SEC to further build affinity within their territory.

It is a very clear, well thought out, and perfectly executed affinity model. It has nothing to do with spreading your progeny as far as you can, It's marketing 101 executed to a T and something any marketing student should study. If you look at a map their next possible picks are pretty obvious. In the east it has to be New York or West Virginia. Since New York doesn't have a state flagship of note, my bet would be West Virginia. UConn is an outside chance but it is not adjacent to any other Big 10 state and breaks their model while WVU touches two states and is union. In the west the only two possibilities are Kansas and South Dakota. Given Kansas is adjacent to Nebraska, a key state in the civil war (civil war rivalry with Missouri in the SEC) and an AAU member. I would bet my last dollar Kansas will be in the Big 10 if Delaney is in charge.

I want the Big East to have a clear affinity model with clear rivalries that isn't dependent on a shrinking percentage of the population. Currently they have nothing clearly articulated and understandable.

[Sactowndog]

And newsflash buttercup, ESPN's ratings are suffering too. FS1 on the whole has established itself as a legitimate network. I was worried much like you at the start, but I couldn't be more optimistic about our relationship with Fox going forward

Newsflash "buttercup" reading is fundamental. I never mentioned ratings on FS1. I am talking about ratings on Fox OTA (over the air), no clear affinity strategy and a image tied to a rapidly declining segment of the population.

This conference is mimicking winning conferences like the MWC, the Pac-12 and the Big 12. The MWC, way too late, is finally getting closer by accident because Thompson is an idiot (the common perception on the MWC board). The Pac-12 prioritizes everything but building a conference with rivalries and that people can relate to. Apparently the PAC can't read a map and tell that Utah borders no other Pac-12 state and is separated from Colorado by a major mountain range. Surprise surprise, Direct TV could care less if they carry the Pac-12 network. The Big 12 is working on being the next big east when the SEC takes Oklahoma or Oklahoma State and the Big takes Kansas. The Pac-12 might get Oklahoma and Texas just further reinforcing they have no clear affinity strategy with disparate unrelated states related only by their joint snobbery.