(4) Tuesday Big East Games 11/29/16

[REDMEN1415]

Given the Yankees are the only above average franchise in the city, I think that's probably a misrepresentation.

You don't follow hockey huh? Until last year the Rangers were kicking ass.
Kicking ass again this year.

[Hall2012]

Hooper is a permanent pessimist. No one wants to run Mullin out of town, at least not the rational fans. Though on Twitter we have one guy saying we should hire Al Skinner, that he'd be GREAT at St. John's. Ugh I hate a good portion of my fellow St. John's fans. These are the same mooks who root for the Jets and Mets. Perpetual losers who only feel good when they are complaining. No actual answers just fire everyone because SOMETHING has to be done. The Giants and Yankees fans in NYC are much more about consistency and caution. patience is the key to both organizations and those are the two that win championships. The other two aren't consistent, they fire coaches after short runs, they bend to fans irrational demands they make wild decisions that set their teams back years. Which model should SJU follow? Clearly the Giants/Yankees model of consistency and patience.

Wait, what? I don't mean to derail this thread (though it may have already gone that way) so this'll be my only post on the matter. I'll give you consistency, but patience and caution are the last 2 words I would use to describe the Yankees. Do you really think Yankees fans would happily sit (without complaining) through a 5+ year rebuild of sub-.500 ball every year with no major player acquisitions? Even if they had a guarantee of opening a championship window after those 5 years, like the one that recently opened for the Mets, I bet that answer would be a resounding no.

Hall, let take a look at this.
In the late 80s all George wanted to do was trade the farm for big name players, result? Yankees were garbage.
The last recent years we had some big name players, result? Didn't do anything much.

When did the Yanks start doing good? I believe it was 92 when George got suspended from baseball. Stick Michael took over. What hap;pens is he didn't trade the the farm.
First one brought up was Barnie in 92 i believe. Then Jeter, mariano, Pettitte. They filled in the holes with Wetteland, Tino, Duncan, and Brosius.
That's how you win, starts one the farm, fill in the holes with FA's

I love giving the kids a chance, lets see what they have.

Fine, 1 more. I agree that building through the farm system and giving the kids a chance is the best approach. And I agree the 90's Yankees obviously had success with that. My point is just that, when looking at the ridiculous free agent contracts they've more recently given to Arod, Texeira, Sabathia, Giambi, Ellsbury, etc., I can't possibly call them a model organization for patience and caution. All were paid way above market value at the time they were signed and Arod's contract is still the 2nd richest ever behind only Giancarlo Stanton (signed 7 years later).

[Bill Marsh]

Hooper is a permanent pessimist. No one wants to run Mullin out of town, at least not the rational fans. Though on Twitter we have one guy saying we should hire Al Skinner, that he'd be GREAT at St. John's. Ugh I hate a good portion of my fellow St. John's fans. These are the same mooks who root for the Jets and Mets. Perpetual losers who only feel good when they are complaining. No actual answers just fire everyone because SOMETHING has to be done. The Giants and Yankees fans in NYC are much more about consistency and caution. patience is the key to both organizations and those are the two that win championships. The other two aren't consistent, they fire coaches after short runs, they bend to fans irrational demands they make wild decisions that set their teams back years. Which model should SJU follow? Clearly the Giants/Yankees model of consistency and patience.

Wait, what? I don't mean to derail this thread (though it may have already gone that way) so this'll be my only post on the matter. I'll give you consistency, but patience and caution are the last 2 words I would use to describe the Yankees. Do you really think Yankees fans would happily sit (without complaining) through a 5+ year rebuild of sub-.500 ball every year with no major player acquisitions? Even if they had a guarantee of opening a championship window after those 5 years, like the one that recently opened for the Mets, I bet that answer would be a resounding no.

Comparing the Yankees to the Johnnies is laughable. Expectations are a little different

27 World Series championships
0 National championships

Apparently not for Hooper. He compared them to the Jets.

BTW, St John's does have a couple of national championships in their back pocket:

1911 - mythical title (Helms Foundation), undefeated team
1944 - NIT (beat a field that included NCAA champs Uta)

[Bill Marsh]

the ONLY way that Mullin isn't coaching at St John's next year is if he gets tired of it and leaves himself. Which wouldn't be close to the top 100 of most shocking things ever.

I do think by next year though, St John's has to be at .500 at least. They have to show some progress by then I feel.

This is patently absurd statement. Norm Roberts was sub .500 in 4 of his first 5 years, but they brought him back for year 6. He was 20 games under .500 for his St John's career. He was 60 games under .500 in his previous head coaching job. There was absolutely no reason to have faith in Roberts' coaching or in his ability to build a program, but he survived for 6 years.

It's ludicrous to think that they're going to show Mullin the door after 2-3 years. He's not just their coach. He's deeply imbedded within the St John's community. He's their friend and their hero. To Louie and that generation, he's like a son. He and his wife are both alums. He's the face of the program. He won't be treated just like any other coach.

[Bill Marsh]

Hooper is a permanent pessimist. No one wants to run Mullin out of town, at least not the rational fans. Though on Twitter we have one guy saying we should hire Al Skinner, that he'd be GREAT at St. John's. Ugh I hate a good portion of my fellow St. John's fans. These are the same mooks who root for the Jets and Mets. Perpetual losers who only feel good when they are complaining. No actual answers just fire everyone because SOMETHING has to be done. The Giants and Yankees fans in NYC are much more about consistency and caution. patience is the key to both organizations and those are the two that win championships. The other two aren't consistent, they fire coaches after short runs, they bend to fans irrational demands they make wild decisions that set their teams back years. Which model should SJU follow? Clearly the Giants/Yankees model of consistency and patience.

Wait, what? I don't mean to derail this thread (though it may have already gone that way) so this'll be my only post on the matter. I'll give you consistency, but patience and caution are the last 2 words I would use to describe the Yankees. Do you really think Yankees fans would happily sit (without complaining) through a 5+ year rebuild of sub-.500 ball every year with no major player acquisitions? Even if they had a guarantee of opening a championship window after those 5 years, like the one that recently opened for the Mets, I bet that answer would be a resounding no.

Hall, let take a look at this.
In the late 80s all George wanted to do was trade the farm for big name players, result? Yankees were garbage.
The last recent years we had some big name players, result? Didn't do anything much.

When did the Yanks start doing good? I believe it was 92 when George got suspended from baseball. Stick Michael took over. What hap;pens is he didn't trade the the farm.
First one brought up was Barnie in 92 i believe. Then Jeter, mariano, Pettitte. They filled in the holes with Wetteland, Tino, Duncan, and Brosius.
That's how you win, starts one the farm, fill in the holes with FA's

I love giving the kids a chance, lets see what they have.

Spot on.

And don't forget about Jorge.

[BEhomer]

The problem is half our fan base are Mets fans who love to wallow in self pity and whose only answer to adversity is to fire everyone and bring in a whole new group. Mullin has coached less than 40 games and you already know he needs to go? You know what? I think you need to go. I think the fan base needs to be purged of the hand wringing pessimists who are just waiting for us to fail.

These same kids who lost to Delaware State just put up 86 on Minnesota, and hung tight with MSU and VCU. Defense is our issue right now. You don't want to hear "it's a young team" but guess what mr. bi-polar? THEY ARE A YOUNG TEAM!!!! Alibegovich is the most senior player on the team, our #9 guy and he's just a junior.

I hear you. I'm a Met fan and I've been listening to local radio show hosts complaining all week how the sky will fall if we don't sign Cespedes. and our team just made two consecutive playoffs. I think the GM deserves some benefit of the doubt. I'm glad we signed him not just because of his talent, but now I don't have to listen to these fans complain. (I can only hope)

[REDMEN1415]

Wait, what? I don't mean to derail this thread (though it may have already gone that way) so this'll be my only post on the matter. I'll give you consistency, but patience and caution are the last 2 words I would use to describe the Yankees. Do you really think Yankees fans would happily sit (without complaining) through a 5+ year rebuild of sub-.500 ball every year with no major player acquisitions? Even if they had a guarantee of opening a championship window after those 5 years, like the one that recently opened for the Mets, I bet that answer would be a resounding no.[/quote]

Hall, let take a look at this.
In the late 80s all George wanted to do was trade the farm for big name players, result? Yankees were garbage.
The last recent years we had some big name players, result? Didn't do anything much.

When did the Yanks start doing good? I believe it was 92 when George got suspended from baseball. Stick Michael took over. What hap;pens is he didn't trade the the farm.
First one brought up was Barnie in 92 i believe. Then Jeter, mariano, Pettitte. They filled in the holes with Wetteland, Tino, Duncan, and Brosius.
That's how you win, starts one the farm, fill in the holes with FA's

I love giving the kids a chance, lets see what they have.[/quote]

Fine, 1 more. I agree that building through the farm system and giving the kids a chance is the best approach. And I agree the 90's Yankees obviously had success with that. My point is just that, when looking at the ridiculous free agent contracts they've more recently given to Arod, Texeira, Sabathia, Giambi, Ellsbury, etc., I can't possibly call them a model organization for patience and caution. All were paid way above market value at the time they were signed and Arod's contract is still the 2nd richest ever behind only Giancarlo Stanton (signed 7 years later).[/quote]

and who was the owner then? George?
Hal and Hank isn't spending like their pops did. They are showing patience.

[NJRedman]

Stop taking everything literally. My point is that the New York fanbase at large demands winning and fast. We are not as patient as some small town program. That was my point. If you think I was comparing SJ to the Jets/Giants or suggesting I want a billboard in Queens you are crazy. NJRedman calling a psychologist "bipolar" is rich. Maybe if you stopped being so cranky and actually had legitimate rebukes to my points I would take you more seriously. The fact is Mullin is not the answer and you can see all the red flags already. The past 3 epic losses would be bad losses for Siena let alone a Big East team.

No, they don't. I already pointed out which NYC teams demand winning and fast. Those teams don't win as consistently as the teams who adhere to patience and consistency. How many FB coaches have the Giants been through since 2000? 3. How many have the Jets been through? Almost twice as many, 5. The Yankees have had 2 in that time span. The Mets? Once again they have had 5. In 16 years they each have had 5 men at the top spot and neither has won a championship.

You have no actual points to rebuke.

[stever20]

the ONLY way that Mullin isn't coaching at St John's next year is if he gets tired of it and leaves himself. Which wouldn't be close to the top 100 of most shocking things ever.

I do think by next year though, St John's has to be at .500 at least. They have to show some progress by then I feel.

This is patently absurd statement. Norm Roberts was sub .500 in 4 of his first 5 years, but they brought him back for year 6. He was 20 games under .500 for his St John's career. He was 60 games under .500 in his previous head coaching job. There was absolutely no reason to have faith in Roberts' coaching or in his ability to build a program, but he survived for 6 years.

It's ludicrous to think that they're going to show Mullin the door after 2-3 years. He's not just their coach. He's deeply imbedded within the St John's community. He's their friend and their hero. To Louie and that generation, he's like a son. He and his wife are both alums. He's the face of the program. He won't be treated just like any other coach.

He was over .500 in year 3. That's why he got to years 4 and 5.

There's absolutely no reason for folks to have faith in Mullins coaching or in his ability to build a program.

And it's not exactly hard to get to .500 now in days. St John's this year has 9 games with teams ranked 91 or lower. So you win those 9 and go just 7-15 vs the rest.

If you finish under .500 you are either losing to cupcakes OR not beating anyone with a pulse. Neither one is good.

[SJHooper]

There's no need to take personal shots, let's just make points back and forth. Enough of this "pessimist" and "bipolar" garbage. If you are a results oriented person, you know Mullin is not the answer. If you are an emotionally-driven person, you may watch a video of him in 1985 and never want him to leave. Mullin as a person and a player is one thing. Greatest guy to ever wear our uniform, and a great person who overcame a lot in his life. As I type this, I'm looking at the jersey he signed for me (thanks to Matt A. who gave my jersey to him). I love Mullin the player, the local guy, the NBA star, the good person. I don't care if it's Ghandi...doesn't matter how nice you are or how good you were as a player...if you are a terrible coach you are a terrible coach. In fact, it almost never works out when you try to put a top former player in a coaching position. Mullin year 1 had zero expectations...zero. Left with nothing, and zero talent. Fine. Year 2 comes, hype builds, we continue to recruit well, and we have our stud freshmen guards and our soph big men who already had a year of experience. No one said we would be a top 25 team, not even a tourney or NIT team. But that didn't mean there were zero expectations this time around. When it becomes too much to ask to beat teams like St. Thomas Aquinas, Incarnate Word, and #341 Delaware St. what does that really say between the lines? Is the team young? Yes. Are there successful young teams? Yes...Seton Hall a few years back. Is Mullin new to coaching? Yes. But a major red flag is seeing not only no improvement but REGRESSION among some of the players especially the bigs. His body language also suggests he may wave the white flag soon which is my prediction. He's sitting all game, rubbing his eyes, doesn't get involved enough in timeouts, we run no sets, we play zero defense, can't rebound, etc. Sorry, but I would expect better than that from an NBA HOFer even if it's his first coaching gig. The signs are there...something's off. Felt the same way about Lavin teams even when we were ranked #15 we just didn't feel right. We saw how that panned out. Nothing against Mullin, he's just clearly over his head and it will be a miracle at this point if he turns everything around in a big way moving forward. I'd never hope I was more wrong.

As for the NY thing, I was referring to impatience. New York fans are more impatient than many other fanbases. My point was that if Mullin continues to suck, many will call for his head like they did Lavin. Yes I understand he's a legend. You can be a legendary player but suck as a coach. It happens. That's why I'd still totally respect him but kindly ask him to move aside so a real coach can come.