(4) Tuesday Big East Games 11/29/16

[SJHooper]

I don't think all is lost for this season with St. John's, but to this point I do believe that Mullin is in over his head as an actual in-game coach and potentially as a developer of talent. Considering that this is far worse than any loss that they suffered last season with significantly less talent (Incarnate Word was about 100 spots higher than Delaware State), St. John's will really have to hope that the transfers that become active next season are what this team's been missing or it could be a painful process trying to get rid of Mullin down the road.

No way that we are anywhere close to even talking about St John's getting rid of Mullin. He is a god-like figure on that campus, the face of St John's basketball.

He took over a program that needed a major rebuilding job and needed to reconnect with the high school and AAU coaches in and around the city. That's his major task right now. His ability to recruit the NY area will determine whether he succeeds.

Where his team is now says nothing out his ability to develop talent. Where the team is in March will tell us something, but more relevant is where they are after 2-3 years of working with a solid nucleus.

Just my 2 cents.

Don't be so sure. This is New York...we don't care who you are. If you don't win you will be run out of town. This is the same sports market that saw fans collectively buy a billboard to get a Jets GM fired...and he was. I think we have to take Chris for what he is: a legendary player...the best to ever play here. But not a coach. I think we give him credit for trying and can still reflect very positively on him. My prediction based on what I see is that Mullin resigns sooner than later. He just does not seem interested, does not seem comfortable, and looks like a guy asking himself "what did I get myself into?" while sitting during games rubbing his eyes. He's not the kind of guy who would linger around and get fired...if he is bad he knows it and I think for the sake of the program he'd resign. I give credit for our program taking a shot at him, but it simply won't work as we now know. This is like when Kansas beat Texas in football recently. Strong lost his job after that loss. Losing to nearly the worst D1 team with all the talent on this team is unacceptable. Last year, maybe. But this year? No way. It's clear as day that we need a new coaching administration, however I'd love to keep Matt A. He might be the only bright spot of the entire program right now. Stony Brook's campus sits about 45 miles down the LIE from the St. John's campus and they just had a great coach Piekell (probably misspelled) go to Rutgers and has them 6-0 (yes weak schedule but it's Rutgers). We really need to go after the young hungry rising coaches instead of re-treads (Lavin) and big name former players (Mullin). Our rebounding is atrocious even with huge size advantages, we run no offensive sets, we can't keep a lead, we play zero defense, we can't finish at the rim, and players have regressed. The solution is not to wait 2-3 more years and see what happens...the solution is to remove the dead weight asap and bring in some actual coaches who have proven track records. I also don't want to hire assistants to be the head coach, I want guys who are used to being head coaches for solid mid major programs like a Masiello or an Archie Miller type. I would say Dan Hurley, but I think he said he wants to stay at URI pretty strongly. We need to cut our losses, and end the madness. Waiting will only put off the inevitable.

[whiteandblue77]

Yall were talking about Ochefu and his ability to score down low at the right time, I agree completely and also he had the ability to shoot the 3 ball when needed. Something that Patton has worked on extensively but hasn't needed to show yet... until last night. Knocked down an uncontested 3 after nailing a step inside the 3pt. line the play before. Nice to have in his arsenal. Here's a pic from last night, that dude he's shooting over? Ikenna Smart, 6'10" 235 lbs... Justin makes him look like he's 6'3"

[GumbyDamnit!]

Nova looked sloppy again last night. Jay Wright appears to have found another perimeter stud in Divincenzo, but man they're gonna miss the big guy Ochefu in the tourney. He was literally the perfect center for Wright's offense.

5 point game 7 minutes in. Josh Hart enters game (he didn't start b/c he was late for a practice) and by 13 minutes in, Nova leads by 18. It never got closer than 15 pts the rest of the way. Pts per possession at that point: Nova 1.5, Penn 0.62. They shot 55% from the field and held Penn to 32% on their home floor. I have very little concern about sloppy play when a game is decided in the first half. That's usually what happens.

RE: Ochefu. Sure we're going to miss him but Jay has plenty of bullets left in his gun. Last night 6 players scored in double figures and that's with a starter (Booth) missing the game. The team can score and can defend. If they continue to shoot the ball from 3 as they have been, they'll miss Ochefu less and less.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Yall were talking about Ochefu and his ability to score down low at the right time, I agree completely and also he had the ability to shoot the 3 ball when needed. Something that Patton has worked on extensively but hasn't needed to show yet... until last night. Knocked down an uncontested 3 after nailing a step inside the 3pt. line the play before. Nice to have in his arsenal. Here's a pic from last night, that dude he's shooting over? Ikenna Smart, 6'10" 235 lbs... Justin makes him look like he's 6'3"

You might have him confused with another Ochefu. Daniel only took 1 all of last season. He missed...

[Jet915]

In case anyone missed this Marcus Foster dunk...

https://twitter.com/BluejayMBB/status/803795706209177600

[whiteandblue77]

You might have him confused with another Ochefu. Daniel only took 1 all of last season. He missed...

Uh, guess I imagined that

[handdownmandown]

Pretty sure you're thinking of Govan.

[NJRedman]

I always get killed on the boards (pun intended being a SJ fan) for being brutally honest about my Johnnies. Maybe this will finally wake up even the most optimistic fans. As shocking as it is, there are STILL some SJ fans acting like this isn't a big deal. Last night was an utter disaster. Not only was Del. St about the #340 team in division 1 (among the very worst), not only was it not a nail-biter (they dominated all game), but it was at HOME! These past few years we have lost to St. Thomas Aquinas, Incarnate Word, and now Delaware State. Last night, Mullin's seat warmer was turned on in a real way. These are the kinds of losses that not only kill seasons and kill hope among the team, but also brings mountains of negative national press. ESPN was all over this loss on Twitter. Goodman, Dick V, almost everyone who's anyone in college hoops media noticed this loss and highlighted it as being a disaster. Think recruits don't notice? I'm finally at the point where I'm shocked we even get good recruits. It's painfully clear Mullin is not and will never be a good coach. We need to see how the rest of the year plays out and shake his hand and move on. This is a program that knows it sucks, yet waits too long to pull the trigger on a new coach. My guess is that we drag things out to at least 5 years with him, further killing our brand and ensuring our irrelevance. I understand wanting to try him out originally...it's a very attractive hire and it's the stuff movies are made of if he could turn us around. As much as I hate saying it, I want the young rising coach without the famous name who understands how to develop players and design plays. I want a coach who STANDS all game instead of rubbing his eyes while sitting like he's in shock. These are not 50 year old men, these are teenagers and 20 somethings. You need to bring the ENERGY to get them going. As bad as Lavin was, at least he was on his feet the whole time, shouting, running up and down the court, and putting his arm around players after making bad plays giving them a teaching moment showing proper techniques. This is New York, we need straight talk and we need energy. Shocked Mullin doesn't know that being a Brooklyn kid. We need to cut our losses and move on to a new coach with tons of experience. Hopefully Matt would stay but he's the only coach I want to keep. Also the only guy delivering real, tangible results.

I know I'm going to get the typical, "but they are a young team" nonsense, but it does not even come close to excusing a loss like this. We have essentially all 4 star kids out there starting for us and they were playing 1 and 2 star kids who could barely handle ANY D1 teams let alone major conference ones.

Dude, just shut up. You're a painful pessimist and pessimists love disaster because they think it validates their shitty world view.

You think just firing coaches after one year helps our brand? You think anyone will want to come and coach here if we fire our favorite son two years into a rebuild? Who would want to take on this job if they think they will be fired after a bad loss? No patience is a bad thing.

You want a coach who stands all game? Coach K, Tom Izzo, Jim B don't stand all game. What does standing all game have to do with anything?

The problem is half our fan base are Mets fans who love to wallow in self pity and whose only answer to adversity is to fire everyone and bring in a whole new group. Mullin has coached less than 40 games and you already know he needs to go? You know what? I think you need to go. I think the fan base needs to be purged of the hand wringing pessimists who are just waiting for us to fail.

These same kids who lost to Delaware State just put up 86 on Minnesota, and hung tight with MSU and VCU. Defense is our issue right now. You don't want to hear "it's a young team" but guess what mr. bi-polar? THEY ARE A YOUNG TEAM!!!! Alibegovich is the most senior player on the team, our #9 guy and he's just a junior.

[Bill Marsh]

I don't think all is lost for this season with St. John's, but to this point I do believe that Mullin is in over his head as an actual in-game coach and potentially as a developer of talent. Considering that this is far worse than any loss that they suffered last season with significantly less talent (Incarnate Word was about 100 spots higher than Delaware State), St. John's will really have to hope that the transfers that become active next season are what this team's been missing or it could be a painful process trying to get rid of Mullin down the road.

No way that we are anywhere close to even talking about St John's getting rid of Mullin. He is a god-like figure on that campus, the face of St John's basketball.

He took over a program that needed a major rebuilding job and needed to reconnect with the high school and AAU coaches in and around the city. That's his major task right now. His ability to recruit the NY area will determine whether he succeeds.

Where his team is now says nothing out his ability to develop talent. Where the team is in March will tell us something, but more relevant is where they are after 2-3 years of working with a solid nucleus.

Just my 2 cents.

Don't be so sure. This is New York...we don't care who you are. If you don't win you will be run out of town. This is the same sports market that saw fans collectively buy a billboard to get a Jets GM fired...and he was.

it simply won't work as we now know. . . It's clear as day that we need a new coaching administration . . .

You're cracking me up.

So, you're comparing a Jets' coach, a pro team, to a college coach who is beloved and incredibly well connected at every level of St John's alumni and administration. Oh, please. I'm wiping my eyes because I'm laughing so hard.

You're telling us that St John's fans and alums are going to pool their money to mount a billboard campaign to run Chris Mullin out of town?

Then you go onto to tell us that you already know it won't work. It's clear as day. Okay, Nostradamus, it's too bad you weren't around at Duke when Coach K started his rebuilding job there. After 3 years he had an overall losing record. Lost to D2 Appalachian State in year 2 and lowly Wagner in year 3. Too bad you weren't around to advise them that they needed a course correction. They should have mounted a billboard campaign to fire Coach K, right? It was obvious that he wasn't going to succeed.

And speaking of Duke, let's keep in mind that they had far more success in the 15 years before Coach K arrived than St John's has had in the past 15 years. In fact they'd been to the NCAA championship game only 2 years before he started. His rebuilding job was nothing comparable to what Mullin is facing at St John's.

Let's evaluate the message that you're sending out to prospective candidates:

"The program is in the pits and you have 1 year to turn it around. If you're not playing winning basketball by the first month of your second season, you're done."

Let's put that at the top of the job announcement. Candidates will come flocking to your door. Masiello already knows that he can get a million contract anytime he wants because he's already had that offer. Same with the other guys you mentioned. Why do they need to take on Mission:Impossible at St John's?

Thanks for the yucks. I really needed a good belly laugh.

[NJRedman]

No way that we are anywhere close to even talking about St John's getting rid of Mullin. He is a god-like figure on that campus, the face of St John's basketball.

He took over a program that needed a major rebuilding job and needed to reconnect with the high school and AAU coaches in and around the city. That's his major task right now. His ability to recruit the NY area will determine whether he succeeds.

Where his team is now says nothing out his ability to develop talent. Where the team is in March will tell us something, but more relevant is where they are after 2-3 years of working with a solid nucleus.

Just my 2 cents.

Don't be so sure. This is New York...we don't care who you are. If you don't win you will be run out of town. This is the same sports market that saw fans collectively buy a billboard to get a Jets GM fired...and he was.

it simply won't work as we now know. . . It's clear as day that we need a new coaching administration . . .

You're cracking me up.

So, you're comparing a Jets' coach, a pro team, to a college coach who is beloved and incredibly well connected at every level of St John's alumni and administration. Oh, please. I'm wiping my eyes because I'm laughing so hard.

You're telling us that St John's fans and alums are going to pool their money to mount a billboard campaign to run Chris Mullin out of town?

Then you go onto to tell us that you already know it won't work. It's clear as day. Okay, Nostradamus, it's too bad you weren't around at Duke when Coach K started his rebuilding job there. After 3 years he had an overall losing record. Lost to D2 Appalachian State in year 2 and lowly Wagner in year 3. Too bad you weren't around to advise them that they needed a course correction. They should have mounted a billboard campaign to fire Coach K, right? It was obvious that he wasn't going to succeed.

And speaking of Duke, let's keep in mind that they had far more success in the 15 years before Coach K arrived than St John's has had in the past 15 years. In fact they'd been to the NCAA championship game only 2 years before he started. His rebuilding job was nothing comparable to what Mullin is facing at St John's.

Let's evaluate the message that you're sending out to prospective candidates:

"The program is in the pits and you have 1 year to turn it around. If you're not playing winning basketball by the first month of your second season, you're done."

Let's put that at the top of the job announcement. Candidates will come flocking to your door. Masiello already knows that he can get a million contract anytime he wants because he's already had that offer. Same with the other guys you mentioned. Why do they need to take on Mission:Impossible at St John's?

Thanks for the yucks. I really needed a good belly laugh.

Hooper is a permanent pessimist. No one wants to run Mullin out of town, at least not the rational fans. Though on Twitter we have one guy saying we should hire Al Skinner, that he'd be GREAT at St. John's. Ugh I hate a good portion of my fellow St. John's fans. These are the same mooks who root for the Jets and Mets. Perpetual losers who only feel good when they are complaining. No actual answers just fire everyone because SOMETHING has to be done. The Giants and Yankees fans in NYC are much more about consistency and caution. patience is the key to both organizations and those are the two that win championships. The other two aren't consistent, they fire coaches after short runs, they bend to fans irrational demands they make wild decisions that set their teams back years. Which model should SJU follow? Clearly the Giants/Yankees model of consistency and patience.