(2) Sunday Big East Games 11/27/16

[cu blujs]

Iowa may not be considered a marquee win by the end of the season, but it was a road win AND to the extent Iowa turns out to be about .500 or so on the season, SH avoided a bad loss - so that's still a good win, IMO.

[stever20]

Iowa may not be considered a marquee win by the end of the season, but it was a road win AND to the extent Iowa turns out to be about .500 or so on the season, SH avoided a bad loss - so that's still a good win, IMO.

That's probably more true- that they avoided a bad loss- and frankly a loss period. It's not one that will move the needle much, but if you don't get it, it hurts you.

Where the Florida loss hurts is that it cost SH a chance at Gonzaga. And then 3rd game would have been with Miami. Playing Gonzaga and Miami(losing to both) would have been better than playing Quinnipiac and Stanford.

[SJHooper]

As a SJ fan, we just played some tough teams in MSU, VCU, Minnesota, etc. but there was no excuse for the ODU loss. Yeah, they played Louisville tough but every dog has its day. We are a much more talented team than ODU youth being irrelevant. I think our fans make too many excuses at times. We just lost 4 games in a row. This feels like last year, not a new era at all. Hopefully we stampede through the rest of our cupcake OOC games until Big East play, but something tells me we won't. If we win all or all but 1 of the remaining OOC games, I will have hope. If we lose more than 1 of these coming up, it will be telling. After watching my Jets go 3-8 when they should have been a clear playoff team, the Knicks with an all star level team performing mediocre, the Islanders being awful, and the Mets all getting injured, it's just miserable seeing SJ string losses together and having some players regress. What is it that Butler, Xavier, and Creighton have that we don't? Is it the winning culture? Is it the scouting? Is it the fundamentals? Is it the coaching? Something is missing at St. John's.

[XtoDC]

As a SJ fan, we just played some tough teams in MSU, VCU, Minnesota, etc. but there was no excuse for the ODU loss. Yeah, they played Louisville tough but every dog has its day. We are a much more talented team than ODU youth being irrelevant. I think our fans make too many excuses at times. We just lost 4 games in a row. This feels like last year, not a new era at all. Hopefully we stampede through the rest of our cupcake OOC games until Big East play, but something tells me we won't. If we win all or all but 1 of the remaining OOC games, I will have hope. If we lose more than 1 of these coming up, it will be telling. After watching my Jets go 3-8 when they should have been a clear playoff team, the Knicks with an all star level team performing mediocre, the Islanders being awful, and the Mets all getting injured, it's just miserable seeing SJ string losses together and having some players regress. What is it that Butler, Xavier, and Creighton have that we don't? Is it the winning culture? Is it the scouting? Is it the fundamentals? Is it the coaching? Something is missing at St. John's.

Well then it's gotta be the shoes! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zezwd8mNOnE

[Edrick]

The answer is inertia. Programs tend to just continue what they are absent some catalyst (which are pretty rare controlling for cheating).

Why does the inertia exist? I suppose there's a lot of reasons, but I think many of the important ones are psychological - winning programs just expect to win. When they have success, they aren't waiting for the other shoe to drop. I think it takes years to never even really consider failing

[Wizard of Westroads]

What is it that Butler, Xavier, and Creighton have that we don't?
Is it the winning culture? Yes, a culture that doesn't demand a "big name" as coach, it demands a good coach. St. John's hired a guy with no relevant coaching experience to run a program with top 25 aspirations. What on his resume said he'd be a good college coach? His post-playing career has been underwhelming. He was let go by the Warriors, and never had done anything to indicate he had a future in coaching until St. John's hired him. Rutgers hired a good coach, not a big name, and he's turned a dumpster fire into a halfway decent team in his first season. Look what Mullin did in his first season.
Is it the scouting? Yes, that comes with a good coaching staff.
Is it the fundamentals? Yes, a good staff teaches that.
Is it the coaching? Yes.
Something is missing at St. John's. Agree.

All that being said, it's a young, talented roster. There's plenty of upside, but the ceiling will be limited by the coaching.

[SJHooper]

I knew the Mullin hire was too good to be true. I will give Mullin one more year. If Zach Brown is eligible and plays (7'1 major center recruit) along with Clark and our team still has no real sign of massive improvement, then he has to go. You give him a hug, tell him you are the best player to ever play for us, thank him for trying, and part ways. So honestly we don't know yet, but I assume that if most were forced to bet their house they would bet that it won't work out (including myself based on what I've seen so far). You can kick and scream and say "but we are young man!" or "just be patient!". The truth is, our fanbase is so used to losing and mediocrity that we don't even have high standards. If we can't finish out this season going into next season on a promising note with clear improvement, then we need to get a rising star young coach.

[DudeAnon]

I knew the Mullin hire was too good to be true. I will give Mullin one more year. If Zach Brown is eligible and plays (7'1 major center recruit) along with Clark and our team still has no real sign of massive improvement, then he has to go. You give him a hug, tell him you are the best player to ever play for us, thank him for trying, and part ways. So honestly we don't know yet, but I assume that if most were forced to bet their house they would bet that it won't work out (including myself based on what I've seen so far). You can kick and scream and say "but we are young man!" or "just be patient!". The truth is, our fanbase is so used to losing and mediocrity that we don't even have high standards. If we can't finish out this season going into next season on a promising note with clear improvement, then we need to get a rising star young coach.

Every new coach pretty much gets a guaranteed 5 year window. Be patient, Mullin will pull it together. The one thing you can't teach is the desire to win. That is what someone like Holtmann has and JT3 does not. Mullin has that desire and I believe he will get there eventually.

[Hall2012]

What is it that Butler, Xavier, and Creighton have that we don't? Is it the winning culture? Is it the scouting? Is it the fundamentals? Is it the coaching? Something is missing at St. John's.

Coaching is exactly what it is, and Seton Hall is in very much the same position as St. John's. They bring in plenty of talented, athletic recruits, and send them out to play an improv/street ball style offense and expect to win by sheer athleticism. Like one person here commented on a Seton Hall game over the weekend - it didn't look like they ran 1 set play all night. That's not something you'll ever see from Butler, Xavier, and Creighton. Throughout most of their histories, these schools didn't have the luxury of high major recruiting. In order to be successful, they needed to build systems that made the team greater than the sum of its parts. They won with excellent tactical and fundamental coaching, as well as some good old fashioned toughness. Now they're getting to put Big East quality rosters into these same systems and you're seeing the results - they're all in the top 10 and have the potential to be scary good for a long time.

[stever20]

I knew the Mullin hire was too good to be true. I will give Mullin one more year. If Zach Brown is eligible and plays (7'1 major center recruit) along with Clark and our team still has no real sign of massive improvement, then he has to go. You give him a hug, tell him you are the best player to ever play for us, thank him for trying, and part ways. So honestly we don't know yet, but I assume that if most were forced to bet their house they would bet that it won't work out (including myself based on what I've seen so far). You can kick and scream and say "but we are young man!" or "just be patient!". The truth is, our fanbase is so used to losing and mediocrity that we don't even have high standards. If we can't finish out this season going into next season on a promising note with clear improvement, then we need to get a rising star young coach.

Every new coach pretty much gets a guaranteed 5 year window. Be patient, Mullin will pull it together. The one thing you can't teach is the desire to win. That is what someone like Holtmann has and JT3 does not. Mullin has that desire and I believe he will get there eventually.

I wouldn't agree with that 100%. We definitely see coaches dismissed in year 3 or 4 enough to not say that every coach pretty much gets a guaranteed 5 years.. Just last year 2 p5 coaches were dismissed- Eddie Jordan and Trent Johnson in years 3 and 4 respectively.

I just don't see the blind faith that folks have that say that he will pull it together. He had no coaching experience prior to St John's. We've regularly seen guys try to coach that just can't.