Conference Realignment Thread v. 2016

[NJRedman]

Back to conference re-alignment, and as I've posted several times here in the past:
(1) UConn is just plain NOT a good fit with our current league (they are public, not private, with the financial disclosure issues that entails, plus they are football driven instead of bball driven, plus they are NOT a "values-oriented" institution as we define that term. That's 3 strikes, and you're out and you get no invitation ever ever ever ever to re-join the BEAST, despite your gloried bball history. (BTW, I do hope UConn is able to schedule their former league-mates forever -- they have a history of great match-ups against St. John's and Syracuse in particular, and FWIW, I'd also like to see them eventually get into a P5 conference (Hail Mary) and end our speculations about them forever!)
(2) St. Louis is the single best fit for BEAST expansion out there (they have a big media market, they "bridge the gap" to Creighton geographically, they're a "values-oriented" institution, and they bring a good athletics program in sports other than men's basketball -- eg. men's soccer.) 4 balls and you're on base -- Nobody else currently even comes close! The "weak sisters" in the ACC, SEC, or Big 10 (except maybe for Boston College -- and they'd have to give up football first to be viable (not likely!)) aren't good candidates either. What about A-10 teams like Dayton or Richmond? How about Detroit Mercy or Duquesne or Canisius or another Boston school for their media markets? Or Gonzaga or St. Marys, or maybe even both of them and an entire western division? All long shots, very long shots.

My bottom Line: we should neither need nor even want to expand at all in the foreseeable future. But if Fox or ESPN throws a TON of money at us to expand, well then .....

Yeah thats this biggest misconception people have in regards to expansion. Them being public is not a detriment. Financial disclosure is a detriment for what reason exactly? So people can find out how much they make from the TV contract? Whats the actual issue there? Freedom of Information Act to find out what about the league? What have those exposed in conferences like the B1G, Pac, ACC, SEC or XII?

ALso WTF does "values driven" even mean? We are NOT values driven schools. We are not. We are just like every other school out there. We are about making money. We have corruption, we have scandals and we have deplorable people in positions of power at each and every one of our schools I guarantee you that.

For example, take a look at my alma mater and a huge story that got very little air time. If you think this is an anomaly than you need to dig a little deeper.

http://nymag.com/news/features/cecilia- ... ns-2013-3/

[GumbyDamnit!]

But recruiting hasn't dropped off for UConn. If anything, it's picked up in the AAC(part of that is the exposure that was in the old Big East was really not that good at all compared to what both the New Big East and the AAC have gotten).


The old Big East TV contract was NOT good in terms of Exposure. UConn in 2012-13 season had for the 18 conference games.
4 ESPNU
7 regional sports network
4 ESPN
3 ESPN2

this year-
ESPN2 1
CBSSN 7
ESPN/ESPN 2 4
ESPNU 3
ESPN 1
CBS 2

I'd take what they have this year over what they used to get any time. I think the old contract was far to reliant on regional sports networks, that you can't always get the games.

Man, Stever you must have been something before Google... You can't just throw stuff out there and expect that people won't check your data (link below). During that 12-13 season, they were on ESPN / ESPN 2 (11) times not (7) as you claim. This year they are on ESPN/ESPN2 (6) times. But here is what is really telling... ESPN/ESPN2 is carrying the flagship of the American Conference, vs conference opponents a grand total of... (wait for it)... 2 times. Back in 12-13 there were (8) conference games on ESPN/ESPN2. That speaks volumes to where ESPN values UConn and the American these days.


http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-men/hc-uconn-mens-basketball-schedule-20120905-story.html

[stever20]

The number I used was for conference games only. So looking
CBS/ESPN/ESPN2- 12/13 had 7 games, this year has 8
ESPNU- 12/13 had 4 games, this year has 3
others- 12/13 had 7 games(regional sports network), this year has 7(CBSSN)

ALSO, if you are adding in the OOC games to make 10(only 3, Mich St, NC State, Washington), you have to add the 4 OOC games aired on ESPN or ESPN2 this year, along with the game on Fox vs Georgetown. So 10 vs 13 on ESPN,ESPN2, CBS, or Fox games.

Also, your point about UConn being on ESPN/ESPN2 is dead wrong. They are on ESPN 1 time already set, ESPN2 1 time already set, and then 4 times the designation is ESPN/ESPN2 where they'll announce which network shows it. So 6 times in conference play. In 12/13, they were on 7 times on ESPN/ESPN2. But this year 2 CBS appearances as well vs conference opponents.

I would take the exposure that UConn is getting this year all the time over what the Big East used to get. I'd much rather be on CBSSN than a regional sports network, where not everyone can get the games.

[SJHooper]

Member when UConn was all over SI covers and all over the major sports networks? Oh yeah I member! (South Park reference)

The 2 biggest losers so far from realignment have been UConn and sadly Georgetown. UConn went from a powerhouse nationally to barely making a peep in an awful conference. Yet they act like they carried the Big East. Georgetown has shown zero post-realignment unfortunately. One step forward, two steps back it seems. Every year now they will lose a few inexcusable games against bums, make up for it with a nice ranked win, then just when you think they are back on track, they will get blown out. They might be the most inconsistent major program in America. There have been a lot of different players coming through...talented ones, but the results are the same. That tells me JTIII is not motivating his guys.

[GoldenWarrior11]

But recruiting hasn't dropped off for UConn. If anything, it's picked up in the AAC(part of that is the exposure that was in the old Big East was really not that good at all compared to what both the New Big East and the AAC have gotten).


The old Big East TV contract was NOT good in terms of Exposure. UConn in 2012-13 season had for the 18 conference games.
4 ESPNU
7 regional sports network
4 ESPN
3 ESPN2

this year-
ESPN2 1
CBSSN 7
ESPN/ESPN 2 4
ESPNU 3
ESPN 1
CBS 2

I'd take what they have this year over what they used to get any time. I think the old contract was far to reliant on regional sports networks, that you can't always get the games.

Man, Stever you must have been something before Google... You can't just throw stuff out there and expect that people won't check your data (link below). During that 12-13 season, they were on ESPN / ESPN 2 (11) times not (7) as you claim. This year they are on ESPN/ESPN2 (6) times. But here is what is really telling... ESPN/ESPN2 is carrying the flagship of the American Conference, vs conference opponents a grand total of... (wait for it)... 2 times. Back in 12-13 there were (8) conference games on ESPN/ESPN2. That speaks volumes to where ESPN values UConn and the American these days.


http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-men/hc-uconn-mens-basketball-schedule-20120905-story.html

And look at attendance figures for UConn conference road games in the past five season. They went from playing in front of sell out crowds in Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Louisville, Notre Dame, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, Madison Square Garden, and West Virginia (all 10k+ arenas). Now, in the American, you are playing in front of small arenas, and in most cases - crowds, at Tulane, East Carolina, UCF, USF, Houston, SMU, Tulsa and Temple. Over time, that adds up.

The UConn brand was built into a national power, in large part, to ESPN and the Big East. Calhoun was a huge part in that as well, but UConn never could have reached that level of success without the regional strength of the schools in affiliated with. Today, they have no conference regional rivals, with exception to possibly Temple and Cincinnati. When the AAC/BE split, the AAC carried on a stigma and reputation of Conference USA, and UConn was forced into trying to elevate the league due to its basketball prestige. Today, however, they have not performed as well as some other American programs (in football and basketball), and their prestige has most definitely been lowered.

[stever20]

what you are saying would be so much more valid if UConn was dominating the conference. 33-21 in conference play in the 3 years. If the prestige has been lowered, it's been because they've not been dominant in the conference- other teams have just been better than them. Last 2 years(which is the 2 years with the entire current setup)- UConn is 5th in conference record. 4 games behind Cincy for 4th.

The problem at UConn isn't the AAC. The problem is Kevin Ollie is not a good game coach. Last 2 years in conference play, they are 2-8 in games 5 points or less. You have to work hard at that. By comparison, DePaul is 5-3 in games like that same time period. That's a UConn problem, not an AAC problem.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

UConn was forced into trying to elevate the league due to its basketball prestige. Today, however, they have not performed as well as some other American programs (in football and basketball), and their prestige has most definitely been lowered.

The basketball Huskies are 1-3 vs. Division I teams so far, and are an 11-point underdog against Oregon this afternoon . . . Yahoo! Odds

[SJHooper]

I said it before and will say it again. 3 top 10 teams...30% of college basketball's top 10 teams are right here in the Big East. If you want to split hairs and say Creighton is #12 not #10 then fine but it makes no real difference. They are a top 10 team. A few other programs right here in the Big East are receiving votes in the top 25 and Seton Hall/Butler will likely be ranked soon if they get a signature win. That would be the 4th ranked team in a 10 team conference. The AAC has zero, 0, zilch, nada, no teams in the top 25 and even when they do get the occasional ranked team, it's usually not a top 10 team. We have 3. Memphis lost its luster, Cincy was dropped from rankings, UConn is mediocre by their standards post-realignment, SMU lost Brown and it will put them back to irrelevance soon if not immediately. By the way, all this while G'Town has been way down and SJ has been disappointing. Just imagine the conference if those programs re-emerge as real powers.

Like I said, if you want to speak about the AAC and Big East in any equal terms, you are nuts. Even Obama shouted out old Georgetown rivalry games in his speech the other day giving out awards. The AAC has zero prestige. We have plenty.

[ChicagoX]

But recruiting hasn't dropped off for UConn. If anything, it's picked up in the AAC(part of that is the exposure that was in the old Big East was really not that good at all compared to what both the New Big East and the AAC have gotten).


The old Big East TV contract was NOT good in terms of Exposure. UConn in 2012-13 season had for the 18 conference games.
4 ESPNU
7 regional sports network
4 ESPN
3 ESPN2

this year-
ESPN2 1
CBSSN 7
ESPN/ESPN 2 4
ESPNU 3
ESPN 1
CBS 2

I'd take what they have this year over what they used to get any time. I think the old contract was far to reliant on regional sports networks, that you can't always get the games.

Man, Stever you must have been something before Google... You can't just throw stuff out there and expect that people won't check your data (link below). During that 12-13 season, they were on ESPN / ESPN 2 (11) times not (7) as you claim. This year they are on ESPN/ESPN2 (6) times. But here is what is really telling... ESPN/ESPN2 is carrying the flagship of the American Conference, vs conference opponents a grand total of... (wait for it)... 2 times. Back in 12-13 there were (8) conference games on ESPN/ESPN2. That speaks volumes to where ESPN values UConn and the American these days.


http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-men/hc-uconn-mens-basketball-schedule-20120905-story.html

And look at attendance figures for UConn conference road games in the past five season. They went from playing in front of sell out crowds in Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Louisville, Notre Dame, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, Madison Square Garden, and West Virginia (all 10k+ arenas). Now, in the American, you are playing in front of small arenas, and in most cases - crowds, at Tulane, East Carolina, UCF, USF, Houston, SMU, Tulsa and Temple. Over time, that adds up.

The UConn brand was built into a national power, in large part, to ESPN and the Big East. Calhoun was a huge part in that as well, but UConn never could have reached that level of success without the regional strength of the schools in affiliated with. Today, they have no conference regional rivals, with exception to possibly Temple and Cincinnati. When the AAC/BE split, the AAC carried on a stigma and reputation of Conference USA, and UConn was forced into trying to elevate the league due to its basketball prestige. Today, however, they have not performed as well as some other American programs (in football and basketball), and their prestige has most definitely been lowered.

In addition, I would think that their TV ratings are a fraction of what they were when they were playing major Big East programs compared to their current AAC schedule.

[Sactowndog]

I said it before and will say it again. 3 top 10 teams...30% of college basketball's top 10 teams are right here in the Big East. If you want to split hairs and say Creighton is #12 not #10 then fine but it makes no real difference. They are a top 10 team. A few other programs right here in the Big East are receiving votes in the top 25 and Seton Hall/Butler will likely be ranked soon if they get a signature win. That would be the 4th ranked team in a 10 team conference. The AAC has zero, 0, zilch, nada, no teams in the top 25 and even when they do get the occasional ranked team, it's usually not a top 10 team. We have 3. Memphis lost its luster, Cincy was dropped from rankings, UConn is mediocre by their standards post-realignment, SMU lost Brown and it will put them back to irrelevance soon if not immediately. By the way, all this while G'Town has been way down and SJ has been disappointing. Just imagine the conference if those programs re-emerge as real powers.

Like I said, if you want to speak about the AAC and Big East in any equal terms, you are nuts. Even Obama shouted out old Georgetown rivalry games in his speech the other day giving out awards. The AAC has zero prestige. We have plenty.

yes the Big East has prestige and has played competitively but at the end of the day you succeed based on ratings and the Big East lacks interest. It lacks interest because it lacks interesting rivalries. Rivalries are primarily driven by close proximity, Public vs Private or both. The Big East has neither. I'm a Butler Fan and I would much rather watch the crossroads classic than any Big East game.
Interesting rivalries:
Duke-UNC
UCLA-USC
Stanford - Cal
Utah BYU
Oklahoma Oklahoma State
Alabama Auburn
Xavier Cincinnati.

Even in the old Big East
UConn Georgetown
UConn. BC
Pitt West Virginia.

The primary reason to invite Publics is to create interesting rivalries. Creighton Wichita State would be a top rated game on Fox. GeorgeTown VCU or UConn. Right now the league is homogenous and not merely as interesting as it could be. The ratings for the Big East reflect that fact.
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2016/03 ... asketball/