2017 Recruiting Class Could Be The Best Yet

[BEX]

BE is killing it and the best could still be on the way.

[stever20]

still for the team ratings only 67 schools have any kids. Still way too early to put any stock on the team ratings. DePaul for instance has nobody as a 4 or 5 star but is 50th. That's a joke. Think I saw something like only 27 of the P5 schools have any one as of yet.

Yeah, let's ignore the huge number of 4 star recruits the Big East has already accumulated, and great recruiting classes like Xavier's, and instead focus on the 50th best class.

Oh, and side note:

Four-star wing Jermaine Samuels picks Villanova despite getting a Duke offer earlier this week

Nova jumps to the 12th ranked class.

The thing is- what you show with Samuels just validates what I'm saying. It's so early a #44 4 star player elevates a team 24 slots.

Things are still very unstable. Just since you posted your updated list- Providence is down to #47-down 3 more spots. Just a month ago they were #26.

It's still extremely early. Of the top 50 guys- only 14 have committed. So still 36 to go. And like you saw with the #44 guy- that makes a HUGE difference.

[GumbyDamnit!]

I think it is a case of both being a little right. As Stever points out when the top players in the Top 50 commit you'll see the UK's and Duke's and KU's jump to the top. But here's the thing, (Stever )... These recruiting rankings are soooo misleading when you look at the team's that are bringing in the 1-&-dones. Take UK, KU and Duke. Last year they brought in the top classes because of guys like Murray, and Diallo and Ingram. All 3 have moved on. Hart and Jenkins, Sumner and Bluett, Foster and Watson, Copeland and Peak are all veterans who, if you were to compare them to top 10 frosh coming in, would grade out very well. In other words a 3/4 year old veteran originally ranked 25-100 is often more valuable than a high ranking frosh coming in. As an example at Nova, Brunson was considered the best PG in his class yet Arch was the more essential component of our title run last year.

So let's just keep doing what we're doing. And while I will always welcome getting a stud top 10/20 player, I LOVE when Jay pulls in guys like Samuels. When Bridges takes Hart's spot and then Samuels takes Bridges' spot the train keeps on rolling (all 3 in that 40-90 range). That's how the BE will compete against the blue bloods IMO.

[hortle]

I agree with Gumby's sentiment. There are, like, 3 tiers in my mind.

Top 20 - players that will be impact guys on a winning team as a true freshmen.

Top 20-80 - players that will come in and experience growing pains, but by mid-conference are solid contributors, if not major impact players. In this zone you have the highest ratio of talent to number of years they stay with your team. Very rarely do you see a guy like Ben McLemore in this range, who was around 50th in his class, be one and done (technically speaking since he sat out a year). In this range you have swings and misses, proper talent evaluation is crucial to getting the right players. This IMO is the best area to recruit from, especially considering the monopoly the blue bloods have on the one and done types. And yeah, by year three or four, these guys could be all-conference

Top 80-150 - some guys in this range will help as a true freshman, most need to spend time adding weight or improving their skills to be a contributor.

[stever20]

I think it is a case of both being a little right. As Stever points out when the top players in the Top 50 commit you'll see the UK's and Duke's and KU's jump to the top. But here's the thing, (Stever )... These recruiting rankings are soooo misleading when you look at the team's that are bringing in the 1-&-dones. Take UK, KU and Duke. Last year they brought in the top classes because of guys like Murray, and Diallo and Ingram. All 3 have moved on. Hart and Jenkins, Sumner and Bluett, Foster and Watson, Copeland and Peak are all veterans who, if you were to compare them to top 10 frosh coming in, would grade out very well. In other words a 3/4 year old veteran originally ranked 25-100 is often more valuable than a high ranking frosh coming in. As an example at Nova, Brunson was considered the best PG in his class yet Arch was the more essential component of our title run last year.

So let's just keep doing what we're doing. And while I will always welcome getting a stud top 10/20 player, I LOVE when Jay pulls in guys like Samuels. When Bridges takes Hart's spot and then Samuels takes Bridges' spot the train keeps on rolling (all 3 in that 40-90 range). That's how the BE will compete against the blue bloods IMO.

Here's something that John Gassaway posted on ESPN. Veterans dominated college hoops last season. Blip or trend?

It's an insiders column with top 25 players for this year. (BE did OK- Jenkins 3, Hart 5, Summer 17)

There are years where if the freshmen class are weaker where it'll allow guys who play 4 years in college to compete. But there are other years where the freshmen are so dominant that they are just that much more athletic. Most of the time recently the freshmen have been ahead of those 3/4 year guys. It's an interesting question that will be interesting to watch.

[GumbyDamnit!]

There are kids that are can't-miss. Anthony Davis, Derrick Rose, Ingram, Giles, Tatum etc. I don't think (at this point) BE teams can ever consistently compete to get them vs K, Calipati, Self, Miller . But if we put a team of 25-75 players, who are physically mature and have higher BB IQ's (think Ochefu vs Labissiere) we can compete with lesser (NBA) talent every day of the week.

[Jet915]

There are kids that are can't-miss. Anthony Davis, Derrick Rose, Ingram, Giles, Tatum etc. I don't think (at this point) BE teams can ever consistently compete to get them vs K, Calipati, Self, Miller . But if we put a team of 25-75 players, who are physically mature and have higher BB IQ's (think Ochefu vs Labissiere) we can compete with lesser (NBA) talent every day of the week.

Big East teams will rarely ever compete for top 25 kid's unless they are from the same state or hometown but we will get kids 25-75 who stay 3-4 years and can win championships.

[hoyahooligan]

There are kids that are can't-miss. Anthony Davis, Derrick Rose, Ingram, Giles, Tatum etc. I don't think (at this point) BE teams can ever consistently compete to get them vs K, Calipati, Self, Miller . But if we put a team of 25-75 players, who are physically mature and have higher BB IQ's (think Ochefu vs Labissiere) we can compete with lesser (NBA) talent every day of the week.

Big East teams will rarely ever compete for top 25 kid's unless they are from the same state or hometown but we will get kids 25-75 who stay 3-4 years and can win championships.

Used ESPN rankings
2016:
#18 Omari Spellman Villanova

2015:
#5 Henry Ellenson Marquette
#16 Jalen Brunson Villanova

2014:
#14 Isiah Whitehead Seton Hall
#16 Issac Copeland Georgetown

2013:
#17 Rysheed Jordan St. Johns

2012:
#21 Ricardo Ledo Providence
#23 Kris Dunn Providence

2011:
#25 Dominic Porter St. Johns

2009:
#18 Mouphtaou Yarou Villanova
#19 Dominic Cheek Villanova
#23 Maalik Wayns Villanova

2008:
#20 Greg Monroe Georgetown

2007:
#7 Austin Freeman Georgetown
#11 Corey Fischer Villanova
#15 Corey Stokes Villanova


16 top 25 recruits in the last 9 years. Only 5 of those 16 ellenson, Whitehead, Ledo, Dunn, Wayns, and Freeman fit your negative view IMO but could be argued some of the Jersey recruits for Nova are hometown. But even then it'd only be half.

[stever20]

even there you have only 5 top 15 recruits in the last 10 years- with 3 of them 10 classes ago. So only 2 top 15 recruits the last 9 years.

The thing that the schools like Duke, Kansas, and Kentucky are prisoner to is how good the respective freshmen classes are. When the freshmen classes are excellent, those schools are going to be very tough to beat. but when the classes are mediocre or worse, they're going to struggle like we saw some last year.

And the thing that we saw last year that probably was a blip was the top 10 type guys going to non power p5 schools. Or at least to non power p5 schools with no name coaches(guys like Pearl will get his at Auburn).

[Jet915]

There are kids that are can't-miss. Anthony Davis, Derrick Rose, Ingram, Giles, Tatum etc. I don't think (at this point) BE teams can ever consistently compete to get them vs K, Calipati, Self, Miller . But if we put a team of 25-75 players, who are physically mature and have higher BB IQ's (think Ochefu vs Labissiere) we can compete with lesser (NBA) talent every day of the week.

Big East teams will rarely ever compete for top 25 kid's unless they are from the same state or hometown but we will get kids 25-75 who stay 3-4 years and can win championships.

Used ESPN rankings
2016:
#18 Omari Spellman Villanova

2015:
#5 Henry Ellenson Marquette
#16 Jalen Brunson Villanova

2014:
#14 Isiah Whitehead Seton Hall
#16 Issac Copeland Georgetown

2013:
#17 Rysheed Jordan St. Johns

2012:
#21 Ricardo Ledo Providence
#23 Kris Dunn Providence

2011:
#25 Dominic Porter St. Johns

2009:
#18 Mouphtaou Yarou Villanova
#19 Dominic Cheek Villanova
#23 Maalik Wayns Villanova

2008:
#20 Greg Monroe Georgetown

2007:
#7 Austin Freeman Georgetown
#11 Corey Fischer Villanova
#15 Corey Stokes Villanova


16 top 25 recruits in the last 9 years. Only 5 of those 16 ellenson, Whitehead, Ledo, Dunn, Wayns, and Freeman fit your negative view IMO but could be argued some of the Jersey recruits for Nova are hometown. But even then it'd only be half.

Yeah, while teams like Duke or Kentucky get that many top 25 recruits by themselves....