20 conference games

[NovaBall]

Is stever trying to convince us all that the sky is falling?

hey, if conferences move to 20 games, that willlimit OOC opportunities. But moreso for the atlantic 10, the conference of americans, and the body bag games. The Big East is a high profile conference and will continue to get its OOC games against marquee teams in the major markets.

And when we add UConn we will be going to 20 games too, so no big thing.

[stever20]

I think you are pretty crazy if you think Syracuse would drop the games with Nova and UConn. No, the games that are going to be dropped would be more likely to be the dreg OOC games. Folks just don't want to see the dreg games like Montana St at Syracuse...

I just think if all 5 P5 conferences have gone to 20 than the Big East absolutely will have to think long and hard about going to 20 themselves. I mean 10 years ago the Big East was one of only 2 Power conferences with 18 conference games. The other conferences were forced to move up. Same thing will happen going to 20.

And you know this how? Go back a decade and look who Mr Boeheim likes to schedule in Nov and Dec. All cupcakes; all home. Recently he started playing home and homes with BE rivals for recruiting and nostalgia reasons. But all coaches want cupcakes so they can extend their bench and see what they have and make easy $ with home games. This is not new to college BB. The entire foundation of your argument is on very shaky ground Stever.

The thing is coaches aren't just going to have the exempt tournament and that's it for the OOC with the rest dreg OOC games. The OOC schedule matters in the selection process. That's why it's not going to be anywhere near as bad as you think. What does the committee always say? Did you challenge yourself OOC? That's why the coaches aren't going to be able to schedule soft OOC. Also, the TV is going to demand that there's still the quality OOC games. Instead of having 7 dreg OOC home games, they'll have 5. But have a better home conference game in exchange. Maybe not for Syracuse, but for some other schools- that would make a HUGE positive difference.

I think there's a lot of hope in folks here that don't want to see the conference have to expand. But to act like it's all that unlikely is a joke. I'm sorry, but to think that the other conferences would stay at 18 games is pretty unlikely. And if all the p5 is playing 20 conference games, (as would the other conferences like the A10)- the Big East is going to be forced to make a pretty tough decision. And yes, if ALL of the P5 has gone to 20, and Big East were to stick at 18, it would be viewed at pretty unfavorably. And quite frankly by the most important people- the NCAA selection committee.

And you say that our teams would just be able to schedule UConn and Wich St in H&H's. While true, they would have to do that in addition to what they already have on their current schedule. Georgetown couldn't just schedule UConn and Wichita instead of Syracuse and Kansas and be where the other conferences would be with 20 conference games. Also, that then gets into is Wichita St going to be good 2 years from now?

It'll be interesting to watch come October when the conferences have their media days to see the question asked to the other 4 P5 conferences about will they be going to 20 conference games. It may very well just be a rogue thing for the ACC. Or it might be everyone. My position is simple. It's not a definite by any stretch of the imagination that it will happen, but if it does, it's going to be extremely difficult to stay back. I think folks on here think really that there is absolutely no chance that any of the other conferences goes 20, and even if all did, that it wouldn't change the landscape at all.

[milksteak]

Why stop at 20? Let's one-up everyone and do best of 3! Whats that...27 games a season minus the BE tourney? Let's be the trend setter right stever?

Gotta do 36 to keep it round-robin.

[DudeAnon]

I think you are pretty crazy if you think Syracuse would drop the games with Nova and UConn. No, the games that are going to be dropped would be more likely to be the dreg OOC games. Folks just don't want to see the dreg games like Montana St at Syracuse...

I just think if all 5 P5 conferences have gone to 20 than the Big East absolutely will have to think long and hard about going to 20 themselves. I mean 10 years ago the Big East was one of only 2 Power conferences with 18 conference games. The other conferences were forced to move up. Same thing will happen going to 20.

And you know this how? Go back a decade and look who Mr Boeheim likes to schedule in Nov and Dec. All cupcakes; all home. Recently he started playing home and homes with BE rivals for recruiting and nostalgia reasons. But all coaches want cupcakes so they can extend their bench and see what they have and make easy $ with home games. This is not new to college BB. The entire foundation of your argument is on very shaky ground Stever.

The thing is coaches aren't just going to have the exempt tournament and that's it for the OOC with the rest dreg OOC games. The OOC schedule matters in the selection process. That's why it's not going to be anywhere near as bad as you think. What does the committee always say? Did you challenge yourself OOC? That's why the coaches aren't going to be able to schedule soft OOC. Also, the TV is going to demand that there's still the quality OOC games. Instead of having 7 dreg OOC home games, they'll have 5. But have a better home conference game in exchange. Maybe not for Syracuse, but for some other schools- that would make a HUGE positive difference.

I think there's a lot of hope in folks here that don't want to see the conference have to expand. But to act like it's all that unlikely is a joke. I'm sorry, but to think that the other conferences would stay at 18 games is pretty unlikely. And if all the p5 is playing 20 conference games, (as would the other conferences like the A10)- the Big East is going to be forced to make a pretty tough decision. And yes, if ALL of the P5 has gone to 20, and Big East were to stick at 18, it would be viewed at pretty unfavorably. And quite frankly by the most important people- the NCAA selection committee.

And you say that our teams would just be able to schedule UConn and Wich St in H&H's. While true, they would have to do that in addition to what they already have on their current schedule. Georgetown couldn't just schedule UConn and Wichita instead of Syracuse and Kansas and be where the other conferences would be with 20 conference games. Also, that then gets into is Wichita St going to be good 2 years from now?

It'll be interesting to watch come October when the conferences have their media days to see the question asked to the other 4 P5 conferences about will they be going to 20 conference games. It may very well just be a rogue thing for the ACC. Or it might be everyone. My position is simple. It's not a definite by any stretch of the imagination that it will happen, but if it does, it's going to be extremely difficult to stay back. I think folks on here think really that there is absolutely no chance that any of the other conferences goes 20, and even if all did, that it wouldn't change the landscape at all.

If we stay at 10, then we obviously aren't going to play more than 18 conference games. That gives us an advantage because the selection committee gives us due credit for playing a round-robin and we can double up on the number of good OOC games (which helps the entire league.)

[billyjack]

Here's where I think many of us stand:

1. We will stay at 10 teams and 18 games. If an 11th team joins us (due to a homerun addition), then we will go to 20 games.
2. Any increase (or decrease) in games in other conferences is irrelevant to us.

[billyjack]

"Stever's comments are in bold italics:

The thing is coaches aren't just going to have the exempt tournament and that's it for the OOC with the rest dreg OOC games. The OOC schedule matters in the selection process. That's why it's not going to be anywhere near as bad as you think. What does the committee always say? Did you challenge yourself OOC? That's why the coaches aren't going to be able to schedule soft OOC. Also, the TV is going to demand that there's still the quality OOC games. Instead of having 7 dreg OOC home games, they'll have 5. But have a better home conference game in exchange. Maybe not for Syracuse, but for some other schools- that would make a HUGE positive difference."

- as someone said above, coaches will adjust their OOC schedules to deal with these concerns.

"I think there's a lot of hope in folks here that don't want to see the conference have to expand. But to act like it's all that unlikely is a joke."

- I think the 10 of us like our group. If a great, exciting addition becomes available, I think we would all support expansion.

"I'm sorry, but to think that the other conferences would stay at 18 games is pretty unlikely."

- I don't think anyone disagrees with you really. I don't think anyone here has any strong opinion on whether the SEC or whoever moves to 20 games. Other conferences make good and bad decisions, but that's not our problem or concern.

"And if all the p5 is playing 20 conference games, (as would the other conferences like the A10)- the Big East is going to be forced to make a pretty tough decision."

- this is where we have the disconnect. Unless a strong case is made that staying at 18 is hurting us (and no argument has come anywhere close to convincing me of that), then other conferences going to 20 games is completely irrelevant to the Big East.

"And yes, if ALL of the P5 has gone to 20, and Big East were to stick at 18, it would be viewed at pretty unfavorably. And quite frankly by the most important people- the NCAA selection committee."

- this is another point of disconnection... again, no argument comes close to convincing me that staying at 18 in this case would be viewed unfavorably.

"And you say that our teams would just be able to schedule UConn and Wich St in H&H's. While true, they would have to do that in addition to what they already have on their current schedule. Georgetown couldn't just schedule UConn and Wichita instead of Syracuse and Kansas and be where the other conferences would be with 20 conference games. Also, that then gets into is Wichita St going to be good 2 years from now?"

- Georgetown could schedule any 2 teams ranked around #60 to #100 or whatever, whether that is still Wichita in the future, or any other solid mid-major team on a good run. Also, careful of the ACC dregs... BC is awful and they hurt Providence's RPI every year... we'd be better off playing locals Northeastern, Vermont or Stony Brook each year (which we're doing) rather than an ACC dreg.

"It'll be interesting to watch come October when the conferences have their media days to see the question asked to the other 4 P5 conferences about will they be going to 20 conference games. It may very well just be a rogue thing for the ACC. Or it might be everyone."

- I think the only way this becomes any issue is if ESPN goes on a talking-point crusade and fabricates a problem. Luckily the Big East admins are a bright, intelligent group, and won't make poor decisions based on some ESPN PR propaganda exercise.

"My position is simple. It's not a definite by any stretch of the imagination that it will happen, but if it does, it's going to be extremely difficult to stay back. I think folks on here think really that there is absolutely no chance that any of the other conferences goes 20, and even if all did, that it wouldn't change the landscape at all."

- I can't make the leap to see this as a concern nor 'extremely difficult to stay back' by the Big East. Other conferences may go to 20 for whatever reason, but that doesn't concern me at all. Maybe the landscape changes for conferences with 14-16-18 teams in it... that's not us though.

[GumbyDamnit!]

The thing is coaches aren't just going to have the exempt tournament and that's it for the OOC with the rest dreg OOC games. The OOC schedule matters in the selection process. That's why it's not going to be anywhere near as bad as you think. What does the committee always say? Did you challenge yourself OOC? That's why the coaches aren't going to be able to schedule soft OOC. Also, the TV is going to demand that there's still the quality OOC games. Instead of having 7 dreg OOC home games, they'll have 5. But have a better home conference game in exchange. Maybe not for Syracuse, but for some other schools- that would make a HUGE positive difference.

I think there's a lot of hope in folks here that don't want to see the conference have to expand. But to act like it's all that unlikely is a joke. I'm sorry, but to think that the other conferences would stay at 18 games is pretty unlikely. And if all the p5 is playing 20 conference games, (as would the other conferences like the A10)- the Big East is going to be forced to make a pretty tough decision. And yes, if ALL of the P5 has gone to 20, and Big East were to stick at 18, it would be viewed at pretty unfavorably. And quite frankly by the most important people- the NCAA selection committee.

And you say that our teams would just be able to schedule UConn and Wich St in H&H's. While true, they would have to do that in addition to what they already have on their current schedule. Georgetown couldn't just schedule UConn and Wichita instead of Syracuse and Kansas and be where the other conferences would be with 20 conference games. Also, that then gets into is Wichita St going to be good 2 years from now?

It'll be interesting to watch come October when the conferences have their media days to see the question asked to the other 4 P5 conferences about will they be going to 20 conference games. It may very well just be a rogue thing for the ACC. Or it might be everyone. My position is simple. It's not a definite by any stretch of the imagination that it will happen, but if it does, it's going to be extremely difficult to stay back. I think folks on here think really that there is absolutely no chance that any of the other conferences goes 20, and even if all did, that it wouldn't change the landscape at all.

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to argue anymore other than "the BE is going to get hurt here, and the BE is going to get hurt there," without regard to any actual facts or logic. I don't think one single sky is falling prediction that you have made over the past 3 years has come true. Not one. Show me a Stever prediction that has turned out to be accurate. So forgive me if I don't heed your warning when you tell us that the BE is in trouble if it doesn't move from 18 to 20 games. You've put some ridiculous arguments out there but expanding just to keep up with a 20 games schedule instead of 18, has zero merit.

Some additional thoughts... Last year both the BE and B12 had an 18 game regular season. They produced 8/25 top RPI teams and were two of the top 3 RPI leagues.
Secondly, Rutgers & Minn = 250+ RPI; 4 teams from the ACC & B1G, and 5 from the SEC were 100+. What's to say that team X won't replace a solid OOC game with a conference cupcake? Your response: "just because I said so." Regarding those P5 teams and how they better heed your dire warning of challenging themselves OOC. Just take a look at Syracuse, L'ville and ND's OOC last year, and the # of 200+ RPI teams that they invited into their home arenas for slaughter. Those games will never go away. They certainly didn't worry too much about RPI OOC poison--especially when they knew that their league would provide plenty of RPI tests. Same with the Big12, same as the BE. That is what will continue to happen. Coaches will adjust their schedules accordingly and there will be ZERO impact long term whether it is a 18 or 20 or 22 or whatever, games conf schedule.

This all is foolish to an absurd degree.

[Savannah Jay]

The thing is coaches aren't just going to have the exempt tournament and that's it for the OOC with the rest dreg OOC games. The OOC schedule matters in the selection process. That's why it's not going to be anywhere near as bad as you think. What does the committee always say? Did you challenge yourself OOC? That's why the coaches aren't going to be able to schedule soft OOC. Also, the TV is going to demand that there's still the quality OOC games. Instead of having 7 dreg OOC home games, they'll have 5. But have a better home conference game in exchange. Maybe not for Syracuse, but for some other schools- that would make a HUGE positive difference.

I think there's a lot of hope in folks here that don't want to see the conference have to expand. But to act like it's all that unlikely is a joke. I'm sorry, but to think that the other conferences would stay at 18 games is pretty unlikely. And if all the p5 is playing 20 conference games, (as would the other conferences like the A10)- the Big East is going to be forced to make a pretty tough decision. And yes, if ALL of the P5 has gone to 20, and Big East were to stick at 18, it would be viewed at pretty unfavorably. And quite frankly by the most important people- the NCAA selection committee.

And you say that our teams would just be able to schedule UConn and Wich St in H&H's. While true, they would have to do that in addition to what they already have on their current schedule. Georgetown couldn't just schedule UConn and Wichita instead of Syracuse and Kansas and be where the other conferences would be with 20 conference games. Also, that then gets into is Wichita St going to be good 2 years from now?

It'll be interesting to watch come October when the conferences have their media days to see the question asked to the other 4 P5 conferences about will they be going to 20 conference games. It may very well just be a rogue thing for the ACC. Or it might be everyone. My position is simple. It's not a definite by any stretch of the imagination that it will happen, but if it does, it's going to be extremely difficult to stay back. I think folks on here think really that there is absolutely no chance that any of the other conferences goes 20, and even if all did, that it wouldn't change the landscape at all.

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to argue anymore other than "the BE is going to get hurt here, and the BE is going to get hurt there," without regard to any actual facts or logic. I don't think one single sky is falling prediction that you have made over the past 3 years has come true. Not one. Show me a Stever prediction that has turned out to be accurate. So forgive me if I don't heed your warning when you tell us that the BE is in trouble if it doesn't move from 18 to 20 games. You've put some ridiculous arguments out there but expanding just to keep up with a 20 games schedule instead of 18, has zero merit.

Some additional thoughts... Last year both the BE and B12 had an 18 game regular season. They produced 8/25 top RPI teams and were two of the top 3 RPI leagues.
Secondly, Rutgers & Minn = 250+ RPI; 4 teams from the ACC & B1G, and 5 from the SEC were 100+. What's to say that team X won't replace a solid OOC game with a conference cupcake? Your response: "just because I said so." Regarding those P5 teams and how they better heed your dire warning of challenging themselves OOC. Just take a look at Syracuse, L'ville and ND's OOC last year, and the # of 200+ RPI teams that they invited into their home arenas for slaughter. Those games will never go away. They certainly didn't worry too much about RPI OOC poison--especially when they knew that their league would provide plenty of RPI tests. Same with the Big12, same as the BE. That is what will continue to happen. Coaches will adjust their schedules accordingly and there will be ZERO impact long term whether it is a 18 or 20 or 22 or whatever, games conf schedule.

This all is foolish to an absurd degree.

Bingo...we have a winner.

I am a relative newcomer to the board...but I take it Stever's team is not in a good basketball conference, he would like for them to be in ours, and is trying to convince all of us that it needs to happen for the health of the league. Who is his team (I don't care, really, just looking for a reference point)?

[NJRedman]

The thing is coaches aren't just going to have the exempt tournament and that's it for the OOC with the rest dreg OOC games. The OOC schedule matters in the selection process. That's why it's not going to be anywhere near as bad as you think. What does the committee always say? Did you challenge yourself OOC? That's why the coaches aren't going to be able to schedule soft OOC. Also, the TV is going to demand that there's still the quality OOC games. Instead of having 7 dreg OOC home games, they'll have 5. But have a better home conference game in exchange. Maybe not for Syracuse, but for some other schools- that would make a HUGE positive difference.

I think there's a lot of hope in folks here that don't want to see the conference have to expand. But to act like it's all that unlikely is a joke. I'm sorry, but to think that the other conferences would stay at 18 games is pretty unlikely. And if all the p5 is playing 20 conference games, (as would the other conferences like the A10)- the Big East is going to be forced to make a pretty tough decision. And yes, if ALL of the P5 has gone to 20, and Big East were to stick at 18, it would be viewed at pretty unfavorably. And quite frankly by the most important people- the NCAA selection committee.

And you say that our teams would just be able to schedule UConn and Wich St in H&H's. While true, they would have to do that in addition to what they already have on their current schedule. Georgetown couldn't just schedule UConn and Wichita instead of Syracuse and Kansas and be where the other conferences would be with 20 conference games. Also, that then gets into is Wichita St going to be good 2 years from now?

It'll be interesting to watch come October when the conferences have their media days to see the question asked to the other 4 P5 conferences about will they be going to 20 conference games. It may very well just be a rogue thing for the ACC. Or it might be everyone. My position is simple. It's not a definite by any stretch of the imagination that it will happen, but if it does, it's going to be extremely difficult to stay back. I think folks on here think really that there is absolutely no chance that any of the other conferences goes 20, and even if all did, that it wouldn't change the landscape at all.

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to argue anymore other than "the BE is going to get hurt here, and the BE is going to get hurt there," without regard to any actual facts or logic. I don't think one single sky is falling prediction that you have made over the past 3 years has come true. Not one. Show me a Stever prediction that has turned out to be accurate. So forgive me if I don't heed your warning when you tell us that the BE is in trouble if it doesn't move from 18 to 20 games. You've put some ridiculous arguments out there but expanding just to keep up with a 20 games schedule instead of 18, has zero merit.

Some additional thoughts... Last year both the BE and B12 had an 18 game regular season. They produced 8/25 top RPI teams and were two of the top 3 RPI leagues.
Secondly, Rutgers & Minn = 250+ RPI; 4 teams from the ACC & B1G, and 5 from the SEC were 100+. What's to say that team X won't replace a solid OOC game with a conference cupcake? Your response: "just because I said so." Regarding those P5 teams and how they better heed your dire warning of challenging themselves OOC. Just take a look at Syracuse, L'ville and ND's OOC last year, and the # of 200+ RPI teams that they invited into their home arenas for slaughter. Those games will never go away. They certainly didn't worry too much about RPI OOC poison--especially when they knew that their league would provide plenty of RPI tests. Same with the Big12, same as the BE. That is what will continue to happen. Coaches will adjust their schedules accordingly and there will be ZERO impact long term whether it is a 18 or 20 or 22 or whatever, games conf schedule.

This all is foolish to an absurd degree.

Bingo...we have a winner.

I am a relative newcomer to the board...but I take it Stever's team is not in a good basketball conference, he would like for them to be in ours, and is trying to convince all of us that it needs to happen for the health of the league. Who is his team (I don't care, really, just looking for a reference point)?

He's a Georgetown fan (In theory) but has been around the leagues various message boards for years. He's just our resident pessimist.

[marquette]

The thing is coaches aren't just going to have the exempt tournament and that's it for the OOC with the rest dreg OOC games. The OOC schedule matters in the selection process. That's why it's not going to be anywhere near as bad as you think. What does the committee always say? Did you challenge yourself OOC? That's why the coaches aren't going to be able to schedule soft OOC. Also, the TV is going to demand that there's still the quality OOC games. Instead of having 7 dreg OOC home games, they'll have 5. But have a better home conference game in exchange. Maybe not for Syracuse, but for some other schools- that would make a HUGE positive difference.

I think there's a lot of hope in folks here that don't want to see the conference have to expand. But to act like it's all that unlikely is a joke. I'm sorry, but to think that the other conferences would stay at 18 games is pretty unlikely. And if all the p5 is playing 20 conference games, (as would the other conferences like the A10)- the Big East is going to be forced to make a pretty tough decision. And yes, if ALL of the P5 has gone to 20, and Big East were to stick at 18, it would be viewed at pretty unfavorably. And quite frankly by the most important people- the NCAA selection committee.

And you say that our teams would just be able to schedule UConn and Wich St in H&H's. While true, they would have to do that in addition to what they already have on their current schedule. Georgetown couldn't just schedule UConn and Wichita instead of Syracuse and Kansas and be where the other conferences would be with 20 conference games. Also, that then gets into is Wichita St going to be good 2 years from now?

It'll be interesting to watch come October when the conferences have their media days to see the question asked to the other 4 P5 conferences about will they be going to 20 conference games. It may very well just be a rogue thing for the ACC. Or it might be everyone. My position is simple. It's not a definite by any stretch of the imagination that it will happen, but if it does, it's going to be extremely difficult to stay back. I think folks on here think really that there is absolutely no chance that any of the other conferences goes 20, and even if all did, that it wouldn't change the landscape at all.

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to argue anymore other than "the BE is going to get hurt here, and the BE is going to get hurt there," without regard to any actual facts or logic. I don't think one single sky is falling prediction that you have made over the past 3 years has come true. Not one. Show me a Stever prediction that has turned out to be accurate. So forgive me if I don't heed your warning when you tell us that the BE is in trouble if it doesn't move from 18 to 20 games. You've put some ridiculous arguments out there but expanding just to keep up with a 20 games schedule instead of 18, has zero merit.

Some additional thoughts... Last year both the BE and B12 had an 18 game regular season. They produced 8/25 top RPI teams and were two of the top 3 RPI leagues.
Secondly, Rutgers & Minn = 250+ RPI; 4 teams from the ACC & B1G, and 5 from the SEC were 100+. What's to say that team X won't replace a solid OOC game with a conference cupcake? Your response: "just because I said so." Regarding those P5 teams and how they better heed your dire warning of challenging themselves OOC. Just take a look at Syracuse, L'ville and ND's OOC last year, and the # of 200+ RPI teams that they invited into their home arenas for slaughter. Those games will never go away. They certainly didn't worry too much about RPI OOC poison--especially when they knew that their league would provide plenty of RPI tests. Same with the Big12, same as the BE. That is what will continue to happen. Coaches will adjust their schedules accordingly and there will be ZERO impact long term whether it is a 18 or 20 or 22 or whatever, games conf schedule.

This all is foolish to an absurd degree.

Bingo...we have a winner.

I am a relative newcomer to the board...but I take it Stever's team is not in a good basketball conference, he would like for them to be in ours, and is trying to convince all of us that it needs to happen for the health of the league. Who is his team (I don't care, really, just looking for a reference point)?

Technically he claims allegiance to Georgetown, but he did not attend any Big East institution and is mainly just a general basketball fan.