Big East Expansion Again!

[xusandy]

When the BEAST came together, there was lots of talk on this site about who we would add, and when. Then, given our collective success in years 1-3, meeting/exceeding our fondest dreams, we all pretty much stopped talking about expansion; a stable 10 team league curently seems like a pretty darn good thing. BUT....the landscape of big time college basketball keeps on slip slidin' away, and media $$ keep getting more and more important, so maybe (just maybe) we'll be pressured to expand in the next couple of years.

If so, and if we (foolishly?) give into that pressure, I continue to believe there are only two candidates that check off all the boxes (big media markets or draws, church affiliated schools with a "values oriented" educational program and a strong academic profile, a "clean" athletic program with men's basketball as a prime driver, and an improvement to our geographic footprint.) Those candidates are St. Louis, which would start drooling uncontrollably if invited, and Notre Dame, which would be a better fit with us than in the ACC, but ONLY IF they can work out the football end of things. Other possible candidates (Boston College, Vandy, Wake Forest) would be a better fit with us than in their present conferences, but I see little or no hope they can get the 1000 lb. football bear off their already broken backs. Don't get me wrong here; I'd love to see BC drop football and bring us the Boston media market, but I just don't see it happening.

Anyway, I think the days are gone when we might seriously consider other lesser candidates who fit institutionally or geographically (Richmond, Dayton, Siena, Davidson, Detroit Mercy, etc.), and I'm sorry guys, but UConn is just plain a dead issue - they don't work on ANY dimension except for having a relatively attractive media market and for the memories some of us have about classic basketball rivalries in the former Big East. IF (capital "I" and capital "F") we expand, it will only be to add 1 or 2 schools that fit on virtually all the important dimensions.

[DeltaV]

we all pretty much stopped talking about expansion; .

Did you miss the hundreds of posts on conference realignment, a majority of which were about if we should expand?

Notre Dame isn't going to happen, the small time P5 teams aren't going to give up football, Gonzaga is too far away, and St. Louis isn't any better of an option than any of the others you dismiss.

I think you've probably insulted the Providence fans by saying that we need BC to get Boston...

We sit, wait, and see what happens. Maybe we do get lucky and Vandy or Wake gets sick of the big conference shenanigans, or Dayton goes on a tear and is for once half as good as their fans think they are.

I don't think media markets matter anymore anyway. TV is dead...fans who will pay for a streaming package will be driving the bus when its time for us to re-negotiate our package with FOX.

[alduflux]

[quote="xusandy"] Notre Dame,..., but ONLY IF they can work out the football end of things. /quote]

It's Notre Dame. The football end is the only end.

[NJRedman]

When the BEAST came together, there was lots of talk on this site about who we would add, and when. Then, given our collective success in years 1-3, meeting/exceeding our fondest dreams, we all pretty much stopped talking about expansion; a stable 10 team league curently seems like a pretty darn good thing. BUT....the landscape of big time college basketball keeps on slip slidin' away, and media $$ keep getting more and more important, so maybe (just maybe) we'll be pressured to expand in the next couple of years.

If so, and if we (foolishly?) give into that pressure, I continue to believe there are only two candidates that check off all the boxes (big media markets or draws, church affiliated schools with a "values oriented" educational program and a strong academic profile, a "clean" athletic program with men's basketball as a prime driver, and an improvement to our geographic footprint.) Those candidates are St. Louis, which would start drooling uncontrollably if invited, and Notre Dame, which would be a better fit with us than in the ACC, but ONLY IF they can work out the football end of things. Other possible candidates (Boston College, Vandy, Wake Forest) would be a better fit with us than in their present conferences, but I see little or no hope they can get the 1000 lb. football bear off their already broken backs. Don't get me wrong here; I'd love to see BC drop football and bring us the Boston media market, but I just don't see it happening.

Anyway, I think the days are gone when we might seriously consider other lesser candidates who fit institutionally or geographically (Richmond, Dayton, Siena, Davidson, Detroit Mercy, etc.), and I'm sorry guys, but UConn is just plain a dead issue - they don't work on ANY dimension except for having a relatively attractive media market and for the memories some of us have about classic basketball rivalries in the former Big East. IF (capital "I" and capital "F") we expand, it will only be to add 1 or 2 schools that fit on virtually all the important dimensions.

Maybe you new guys don't think UConn couldn't ever work but at the very least the 5 east coast schools disagree and I'd wager Fox would disagree as well. They were an original member and being public didn't give them an unfair advantage. Their Hall of Fame coach gave them that advantage after our cache gave them recruiting success. Public isn't nearly as big a deal as a lot of folks make it out to be on these boards. Their star power and athletic prowess would be a huge boon for the conference.

[muskienick]

When the BEAST came together, there was lots of talk on this site about who we would add, and when. Then, given our collective success in years 1-3, meeting/exceeding our fondest dreams, we all pretty much stopped talking about expansion; a stable 10 team league curently seems like a pretty darn good thing. BUT....the landscape of big time college basketball keeps on slip slidin' away, and media $$ keep getting more and more important, so maybe (just maybe) we'll be pressured to expand in the next couple of years.

If so, and if we (foolishly?) give into that pressure, I continue to believe there are only two candidates that check off all the boxes (big media markets or draws, church affiliated schools with a "values oriented" educational program and a strong academic profile, a "clean" athletic program with men's basketball as a prime driver, and an improvement to our geographic footprint.) Those candidates are St. Louis, which would start drooling uncontrollably if invited, and Notre Dame, which would be a better fit with us than in the ACC, but ONLY IF they can work out the football end of things. Other possible candidates (Boston College, Vandy, Wake Forest) would be a better fit with us than in their present conferences, but I see little or no hope they can get the 1000 lb. football bear off their already broken backs. Don't get me wrong here; I'd love to see BC drop football and bring us the Boston media market, but I just don't see it happening.

Anyway, I think the days are gone when we might seriously consider other lesser candidates who fit institutionally or geographically (Richmond, Dayton, Siena, Davidson, Detroit Mercy, etc.), and I'm sorry guys, but UConn is just plain a dead issue - they don't work on ANY dimension except for having a relatively attractive media market and for the memories some of us have about classic basketball rivalries in the former Big East. IF (capital "I" and capital "F") we expand, it will only be to add 1 or 2 schools that fit on virtually all the important dimensions.

Maybe you new guys don't think UConn couldn't ever work but at the very least the 5 east coast schools disagree and I'd wager Fox would disagree as well. They were an original member and being public didn't give them an unfair advantage. Their Hall of Fame coach gave them that advantage after our cache gave them recruiting success. Public isn't nearly as big a deal as a lot of folks make it out to be on these boards. Their star power and athletic prowess would be a huge boon for the conference.

I'm one of those "new guys" you are talking about, but I don't fit your profile. I am "all in" on accepting UCONN into the fold as our 11th member of the Big East. Of course, as others may have mentioned elsewhere, the Huskies' brass would have to agree to very severe penalties were they to desire a second break with the Big East. However, at this point in time, I can't imagine a current Power 5 Conference who would want UCONN as an additional member. The ACC and Big 10 have already done some heavy expansion and each passed on UCONN at those times. The Big 12 doesn't seem to be the least bit interested in UCONN as it studies prospective expansion members, even if they went to 14! And the SEC would seem to be out of the question for UCONN. The PAC 12 would be as unlikely for UCONN as Gonzaga is for the Big East!

When the Big 12 does expand (to 12 or 14) they will take a minimum of one of the best programs in the AAC. That Conference could possibly lose as many as THREE of its best members. UCONN would be devastated at that point! They could downgrade their football program to FCS, or become a football-only member of a convenient non-power-5 FBS while becoming an otherwise all-sports member of the Big East. I would love to see the Big East maintain its round-robin philosophy and go to a 20-game Conference schedule. Who wouldn't want to see each member of that 11-team Big East visit their home arena every year!

[gosports1]

anyone care to read into this tweet?

Bob Driscoll ‏@PCBobDriscoll · Jul 20  Warwick, RI

Looking froward to spending 2 days with my Big East teammates in Chicago to have more "Conversations of possibly". #GoFriars #gobigeast

[BEX]

Discussed ad nauseam -

"We’re not in the market for more programs." Val Ackerman 2016

[FenwayFriar]

There is no way, I repeat NO WAY, Notre Dame is coming back to the Big East: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/17102933/acc-espn-agree-20-year-rights-deal-lead-2019-launch-acc-network:

The ACC's new grant of rights also automatically extends Notre Dame's contract with the conference as a member in all sports but football through 2035-36, a source said. If the Irish forgo football independence in the next 20 years, they will be contracted to join the ACC.

UConn is the only option I would consider. Drop football to FCS or stick it in the MAC (yes, I know they wouldn't let UMass do this... but still).

P.S. Shouldn't this thread be put into the Conference Realignment v. 2016 thread?

[cu blujs]

My penny's worth is this. I like 10 schools. I like the round robin, home and home play. I love seeing each school come to Omaha each year. You could probably add one team and still get that an still get meaningful OOC games. But going to 12 schools almost makes it impossible to go round robin. You then have to go to unbalanced schedules. I know Val says expansion is dead for now, and as I said, I like the ten team league. But, it seems that nothing stays static for long in the world of sports. Some time, be it five or ten years down the road, we are probably going to look at expansion again.

If you are going to expand, then I think you should consider what has happened at Creighton when evaluating programs. We were a good mid-major program in one of the top (at the time) mid-major conferences in the country. Creighton was perennially top ten to top 15 attendance, and had strong support within a metro area of roughly a million people. CU also is a strong Jesuit institution, with a very high academic reputation (#1 rated Midwest regional university by US News & World Report, if no one has reminded you of that lately). Also, CU administration, and perhaps more importantly the CU faculty, strongly supports the athletic program and understands its importance to the University. But, we were unable to attract consistently top 100 talent, because those kids want to compete in the major conferences. After CU joined the Big East, we started getting in the doors of those recruits. It took three years and some very good recruiting work, but we are now pulling in top 100 recruits and looking at putting together a very strong recruiting class. I think much the same can be said for Xavier - although their recruiting probably always has been a little ahead of CU because of their proximity to much larger population bases and bball talent.

So, when you look at potential expansion teams, don't be constrained to what they are right now in terms of bball production. If a school has a decent population base and great fan support within that base and there is strong support from the administration and faculty, and if the school has an established history overall of competing highly in the realm of its mid-major peers, then I believe you would see the same level of success within several years time as Creighton and X have achieved in our short time in the Big East. St. Louis comes to mind. Probably a Dayton or to a lesser extent Davidson. Boston U might be another that could fit - although perhaps they like their hockey more than bball there. Yes, Gonzaga and several other west coast schools could also fit that bill, but the travel would make that unlikely.

[stever20]

My penny's worth is this. I like 10 schools. I like the round robin, home and home play. I love seeing each school come to Omaha each year. You could probably add one team and still get that an still get meaningful OOC games. But going to 12 schools almost makes it impossible to go round robin. You then have to go to unbalanced schedules. I know Val says expansion is dead for now, and as I said, I like the ten team league. But, it seems that nothing stays static for long in the world of sports. Some time, be it five or ten years down the road, we are probably going to look at expansion again.

If you are going to expand, then I think you should consider what has happened at Creighton when evaluating programs. We were a good mid-major program in one of the top (at the time) mid-major conferences in the country. Creighton was perennially top ten to top 15 attendance, and had strong support within a metro area of roughly a million people. CU also is a strong Jesuit institution, with a very high academic reputation (#1 rated Midwest regional university by US News & World Report, if no one has reminded you of that lately). Also, CU administration, and perhaps more importantly the CU faculty, strongly supports the athletic program and understands its importance to the University. But, we were unable to attract consistently top 100 talent, because those kids want to compete in the major conferences. After CU joined the Big East, we started getting in the doors of those recruits. It took three years and some very good recruiting work, but we are now pulling in top 100 recruits and looking at putting together a very strong recruiting class. I think much the same can be said for Xavier - although their recruiting probably always has been a little ahead of CU because of their proximity to much larger population bases and bball talent.

So, when you look at potential expansion teams, don't be constrained to what they are right now in terms of bball production. If a school has a decent population base and great fan support within that base and there is strong support from the administration and faculty, and if the school has an established history overall of competing highly in the realm of its mid-major peers, then I believe you would see the same level of success within several years time as Creighton and X have achieved in our short time in the Big East. St. Louis comes to mind. Probably a Dayton or to a lesser extent Davidson. Boston U might be another that could fit - although perhaps they like their hockey more than bball there. Yes, Gonzaga and several other west coast schools could also fit that bill, but the travel would make that unlikely.

The difference though is that Xavier and Creighton had showed they were competent in basketball. HUGE difference there compared to where St Louis is right now. Creighton had made the tourney in the last 2 years before joining the Big East, and Xavier had made it 7 of the prior 8 years before joining the Big East- with 4 sweet 16's. SLU now vs Creighton or Xavier then is akin to DePaul vs Villanova.