(Current) Big East & the FF

[GumbyDamnit!]

I'm sure many of you guys have witnessed how sensitive the Nova fans have been to the narrative that "Nova can't get out of the first weekend...and Jay was not a big game coach," etc. etc. The data said otherwise (previous FF and multiple E8's and S16's for Jay), but it was something perpetuated that stuck. I think we were so sensitive to it because it's all we heard since this time last year. It didn't matter that teams like Kansas had lost in the first weekend the last 2 years as well, or UVA woefully under-performed also. Every single time Jay was interviewed nationally he had to answer questions as to why Nova was such a poor team come March.

Glad that narrative is over but I'm starting to see a lot of (not-so) subtle digs at the BE conference on a whole. Jeff Goodman said in his ESPN article this AM that: "these guys played in the new Big East, which hasn’t been taken all that seriously." Are you freaking kidding me?!?! DOUCHE-bag!!!!

So I sought out real numbers to back up or dispel these highly subjective opinions. I took a look at the last 10 Final Fours to see if maybe Goodman was right. Are we just a middling conference?

ACC - 9 FF's (23%); 4 teams (27%) - 6% success rate per team per year
B1G - 8 FF's (20%); 4 teams (29%) - 5.7% success rate
SEC - 6 FF's (15%) 2 Teams (14%) - 4.3% success rate
BE - 5 FF's (13%); 3 teams (30%) - 5% success rate
B12 - 4 FF's (10%); 3 teams (30%) - 4% success rate
AAC - 4 FF's (10%); 2 Teams (18%) - 3.6% success rate
PAC12 - 2 FF's (5%); 1 team (8%) - 1.7% success rate
Others: 2 FF'2 (5%); 2 teams

In order to make it a true apples to apples analysis, I provided the average success rate per team in that conference. In other words, each ACC school has about a 6% chance of making a FF in a given year, according to the historical data from the past 10 years. So we have the highest % of our teams that have made a FF in the past decade (tied); the 4th highest # of FF's overall (though we have far fewer members than the the 3 above us); and the 3rd best per team success rate overall.

What am I missing here? And it's not just ESPN...CBS has also jumped on the narrative as well. WTF?

[stever20]

I think there's 2 parts...
1- They don't really count Butler as being Big East when they did it....
2- even with that- a recency bias...
SEC had even if you include Butler with BE- 4 teams making FF since 2011
B10 5 teams since 2011
B12 1 team since 2011
ACC 4 teams since 2011

Until this season the new Big East hadn't been taken seriously. Hadn't done anything in the tournament. You know it because look at the threads on here with folks complaining that the media wasn't taking the Big East seriously.

So now if you look at last 5 years.... Which is a lot more how the media views things.
ACC 6 teams
B10 5 teams
SEC 4 teams
B12 2 teams
BE 1 team
MVC 1 team
AAC 1 team

You are seeing just as much negativity with the Pac 12 vs the Big East. Maybe the only difference is that the Pac 12 has had more than 1 top dog, while Big East has only had Nova. And so the pressure fell far more on Nova than anyone in the P12.

Before this year, the NBE was just that a middling conference. You can bring up 6-10 years ago all you want, but that's not how things are viewed. George Mason feels ages ago now....

[Westbrook#36]

If you don't want to count Butler's F4's for the BE, you can't count Louisville's 2012 & 2013 or Syracuse's 2013 F4 for the ACC either. Can't have it both ways.

[mel ott]

If you don't want to count Butler's F4's for the BE, you can't count Louisville's 2012 & 2013 or Syracuse's 2013 F4 for the ACC either. Can't have it both ways.

And that Stever is why though your comments are interesting, your credibility is lacking. You're too smart for that and I guess it shows you just like jacking people around.

[stever20]

If you don't want to count Butler's F4's for the BE, you can't count Louisville's 2012 & 2013 or Syracuse's 2013 F4 for the ACC either. Can't have it both ways.

I don't disagree. I just was thinking what the media may have been thinking... I really think part of their thinking is Louisville and Syracuse have done more for the ACC already than Butler has done with the Big East so far. Even with both having sat out a year for NCAA violations. Louisville made sweet 16 last year, and Syracuse this year with final 4. Butler hasn't made it out of first weekend yet with the Big East.

Also Butlers 1st F4 is already 6 years ago. So if you just go based off the last 5 tournaments plus this year- BE with only 2. Butler in 11 and Nova in 16. That's it.

[SJUBBALL]

The digs will continue from ESPN. Like yesterday when Syracuse won, they tweeted in all caps "SYRACUSE OWNS NYC HOOPS"

Of course St. John's fans don't have much ammo to use to disagree, but we did beat Cuse the last two years so whatever.

When it comes to all these digs, the way I'm starting to look at it, if we keep having success like nova has had, we are forcing them to talk about us whether they are saying nice things or not.

[CoachK]

The digs will continue from ESPN. Like yesterday when Syracuse won, they tweeted in all caps "SYRACUSE OWNS NYC HOOPS"

On the bright side, it caused UConn fans heads to literally pop off their bodies.

[Westbrook#36]

If you don't want to count Butler's F4's for the BE, you can't count Louisville's 2012 & 2013 or Syracuse's 2013 F4 for the ACC either. Can't have it both ways.

I don't disagree. I just was thinking what the media may have been thinking... I really think part of their thinking is Louisville and Syracuse have done more for the ACC already than Butler has done with the Big East so far. Even with both having sat out a year for NCAA violations. Louisville made sweet 16 last year, and Syracuse this year with final 4. Butler hasn't made it out of first weekend yet with the Big East.

Also Butlers 1st F4 is already 6 years ago. So if you just go based off the last 5 tournaments plus this year- BE with only 2. Butler in 11 and Nova in 16. That's it.

I see you're back on moderation, good. No, you were thinking what can I say to throw shade at the BE, as usual. Love how you decide to arbitrarily base your stance off the last 5 years F4's, so you don't have to count Butler in 10, Nova in 09, or Georgetown in 07. The current BE members have 5 F4's in the last decade, FACT. Which puts us behind only the ACC, B1G, and SEC(Kentucky) and ahead of the B12, PAC12, and everyone else if indeed Gumby's numbers are right in his initial post. I'll keep it at that, as I should know better than to get started with your disingenuous BS.

[stever20]

do you really think the media gives a rip about Georgetown in 2007 any more? You can act like 10 years ago is meaningful, but to the media, it's really not. The Big East HAS struggled in the tourney before this year. You can act like it's a continuation of the 2007-11 run- but the media sure as hell doesn't see it like that-

And I wasn't the one who made the comment. Jeff Goodman did. I'm sorry but I totally get where he's coming from. The first 2 years, the NBE didn't do anything in the tourney. You can not like it or not- but that is reality. Do you really think the NBE had been taken seriously before this year? When had 4 sweet 16 seeds and only got 1 sweet 16 team(who wasn't a top 4 seed even).

A lot of folks here play the victim role so much..... If anyone says anything bad about the Big East, it's a hack job or they're a douche bag. Give me a flipping break. In a way it's made their comments now sweeter to me because the Big East went out and earned the respect. Not handed anything.

[DudeAnon]

Wake up, get the kid ready for school. Have some breakfast, get to work. Get my coffee, check out HLOH. See stever bitching about something. Its just a typical Tuesday.