Imagine the Big East, Coast to Coast NYTimes Article

[stever20]

VCU not being in the Big East has absolutely NOTHING to do with basketball. If Richmond had VCU's resume on the floor, they would be in the Big East right now. It's that simple. It's got everything to do with the public/private issue. Period, end of story.

[aughnanure]

Not exactly related to Big East expansion, but Wichita St, Dayton, St. Louis, St. Joe's, Richmond, George Washington, VCU, Davidson, Valpo, and Belmont should form their own conference. Basically the schools from the A-10 that are typically toward the top along with a few other quality mid-majors. I know this isn't going to happen for a multitude of reasons, but it would be extremely beneficial for these teams to do this. This league would probably be the best league outside the Power 5 and the Big East. Could occasionally be better than a Power 5 league. Would be a multi-bid league almost every year. Also would give teams like Wichita St, Valpo, and Belmont the opportunity to get an at-large bid every year. In the MVC, Horizon League, and OVC it's very difficult to get an at-large bid.

It may be smart to do something like this eventually, especially if the P5 start to screw things around (i.e., a larger conferences, more at-large bids for them, distributing NCAA money more unevenly for them, some kind of split).

You coudl have agood conference of:

Wichita St
Davidson
VCU
Rhode Island
Dayton
St. Joe's
UMass
St. Louis
Valparaiso
Bradley

That 10. Could also add Southern Illinois (remember when they were the hot mid-major?!), Northern Iowa, Siena, Iona, Belmont, George Mason, Richmond, Winthrop, etc....some NYC team?



George Mason

[Hall2012]

I'm not trying to put VCU down in any way, I'm just saying let's see more than 1 season under the new coach before making judgment. I'd say the same thing if hey had a terrible year. Look at some Big East examples: Steve Lavin came in to St. John's and immediately got them ranked put them in the NCAA Tournament...then it took him 4 more years to get back there and now he's gone. On the other hand, look at Ed Cooley. He went 15-17 (4-14) in his first year at Providence and now at the end of year 5 he's taken them to 3 straight NCAA Tournaments.

And my question about where they'll go if Wade leaves wasn't so much about moving the goal posts as it was expressing concern about another quick change. I never questioned where they'd be without Smart because, honestly, I thought he wouldn't leave. He turned down enough high major offers that I was convinced he was committed to VCU- and he did stay for a decently long time. I don't know about Wade's situation- if he'll try to further develop this program or jump at the first bigger offer. And they very well may hire another good coach to replace him if he leaves, but the lack of consistency would be difficult on the players.

Just my perception of where they're at- and I don't think any of it is relevant to potentially joining the BE because it seems like the "large public university" factor is a deal breaker for Big East brass even if they do decide to expand.

[Gopher+RamFan]

So the questions already have arisen.... "And what will they do if they lose Will Wade?"

Will posters on this board keep moving the goalposts in regards to this? Before it was "wait until Shaka leaves" now it's Wade? Weve hired Capel III, Anthony Grant, Shaka Smart and Will Wade in succession. I firmly believe that we have great University and Athletic leadership that has put our program in a position to succeed. I hope we keep Wade a long time, he has roots in the area from being an assistant here for years. He is a Clemson graduate and from Tennessee - I'm sure he'll leave one day. I'm also sure he'll leave VCU in a great position moving forward, just like the others have.

Sorry for the novel length response.

Where are people saying that? I think it's more...Wade has been there for 1 year, no one is fawning over him yet. Just like how Gard at Wisconsin will have to prove if he can keep Wisconsin going. Regardless, VCU's obstacles to BE inclusion go beyond trusting that the program will not become DePaul 2.0 or something. I don't think that's the big worry.

I was responding to Hall2012's comment: " Also, where will they be if they lose Wade? Between this season and the 2 he had a Chattanooga, he has attracted some high major attention".

I get that if VCU was private they'd be in the conference now, more than likely - and "fit" is the biggest obstacle. I think the only hope for Rams fans is to succeed at a higher level (NCAA) on the court to the point that the Big East would be insane not to add us.

[Gopher+RamFan]

I'm not trying to put VCU down in any way, I'm just saying let's see more than 1 season under the new coach before making judgment. I'd say the same thing if hey had a terrible year. Look at some Big East examples: Steve Lavin came in to St. John's and immediately got them ranked put them in the NCAA Tournament...then it took him 4 more years to get back there and now he's gone. On the other hand, look at Ed Cooley. He went 15-17 (4-14) in his first year at Providence and now at the end of year 5 he's taken them to 3 straight NCAA Tournaments.

And my question about where they'll go if Wade leaves wasn't so much about moving the goal posts as it was expressing concern about another quick change. I never questioned where they'd be without Smart because, honestly, I thought he wouldn't leave. He turned down enough high major offers that I was convinced he was committed to VCU- and he did stay for a decently long time. I don't know about Wade's situation- if he'll try to further develop this program or jump at the first bigger offer. And they very well may hire another good coach to replace him if he leaves, but the lack of consistency would be difficult on the players.

Just my perception of where they're at- and I don't think any of it is relevant to potentially joining the BE because it seems like the "large public university" factor is a deal breaker for Big East brass even if they do decide to expand.

Fair points, just think it's a little different than "coaching Shakas players" when Wade was the lead recruiter for most of them.

If the Big East will never accept publics, than VCU should either pressure theA10 to grow stronger and add Wichita St. Or join the AAC as long as they don't lose more than one of the better programs.

Anyways, I'll y not to derail this thread on Gonzaga anymore than I have.

[marquette]

2 big issues with this:
1- tourney units.
Wichita- still has 1 from 2012, 5 from 13, 2 from 14, 3 from 15, 3 from 16
Dayton- still has 4 from 2014, 3 from 2015, 1 from 2016
St Louis- still has 2 from 2012, 2 from 13, 2 from 14
St Joe's- has 1 from 2014, 2 from 16
Richmond- has 3 from 2011
GW- has 1 from 14
VCU- has 2 from 13, 1 from 14, 1 from 15, 2 from 16(just from A10)
Davidson- has 1 from 2015(just from A10)
Valpo- has 1 from 13, 1 from 15
Belmont- has 1 from 13, 1 from 15(just from OVC).

2- auto bid into NCAA tourney. This would be a new league. So would take I think it's now 8 years to get a bid.

1-Correct, although they may be able to get a good tv deal to offset those losses considering the brand names.

2-False. Much like the Big East was a "new league" legally when they separated from the AAC (technically the successor entity to the Big East), that league would have 7 teams that had played together in a league and would be eligible for an auto-bid the first year.

[stever20]

2 big issues with this:
1- tourney units.
Wichita- still has 1 from 2012, 5 from 13, 2 from 14, 3 from 15, 3 from 16
Dayton- still has 4 from 2014, 3 from 2015, 1 from 2016
St Louis- still has 2 from 2012, 2 from 13, 2 from 14
St Joe's- has 1 from 2014, 2 from 16
Richmond- has 3 from 2011
GW- has 1 from 14
VCU- has 2 from 13, 1 from 14, 1 from 15, 2 from 16(just from A10)
Davidson- has 1 from 2015(just from A10)
Valpo- has 1 from 13, 1 from 15
Belmont- has 1 from 13, 1 from 15(just from OVC).

2- auto bid into NCAA tourney. This would be a new league. So would take I think it's now 8 years to get a bid.

1-Correct, although they may be able to get a good tv deal to offset those losses considering the brand names.

2-False. Much like the Big East was a "new league" legally when they separated from the AAC (technically the successor entity to the Big East), that league would have 7 teams that had played together in a league and would be eligible for an auto-bid the first year.

the problem is none of those teams would have played together for the length necessary(I think it's like 5 years).... That's why the NBE was able to get an auto bid- as it had 7 teams that had played together for long enough.

[ohiohsbball]

Just so thrilled to see another expansion thread on here; I'll admit I was wrong. I predicted within three years the BE would add SLU and Dayton, and unless an announcement comes soon, I was off. I still think the BE goes to twelve in the near future and I still think its Dayton and St. Louis. Here are just a few points/opinions which I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with.

1. There is the P5, and then everyone else. I hate to say this and I don't agree with it, but the general scope is anything outside of the P5 no one cares about. We all know football drives the bus and is what started this whole thing. We can be bias as we want and as much as I personally love the BE and the A10, those inside the P5 look at these leagues are irrelevant. Sorry, but it is what it is. I do think the BE has the chance to change this perception given their tv deal with FOX, but they are down to less than ten years to prove themselves. You can consider the BE a major conference now because let's face it; what is this all about? Money! Another huge TV deal when the fox contract is up would be ideal for the BE. Again, maybe I'm wrong but I don't see the BE getting another huge TV deal with only a ten team league with no football.

2. If you want eyes on the tv screens and butts in the seats at MSG, then you need to add teams with large fan bases; SLU and Dayton will do that. Say what you want about Xavier being in the same market as Dayton and the hatred X has for Dayton, but look at the numbers ESPN releases every year. Dayton is always a top market for tv viewership for basketball. With SLU and UD getting over 12,000 and more a game it is hard to consider them mid-major; again, they are with the "everyone else outside the P5.

3. Please, please, please quit bringing up Gonzaga and UCONN. It is not happening. No way will Gonzaga have a deal with the BE with that long travel for just basketball. They have to make a home for all sports because the WCC has said publicly that if Gonzaga leaves all sports go. How will Gonzaga play a volleyball game at Seton Hall or Villanova on a weekday night? Come on guys... get serious. UCONN is not dropping football; their alumni and donors will destroy the program because it took them years and years to get funding for D1 football in the first place.

Maybe the BE expands, maybe it doesn't. But I do think if the league wants to be considered a major and competitive with the P5 it is going to be very difficult with only 10 teams; if the BE wants to stay at ten, then a helluva lot more teams other than VIllanova better step up on court success to earn $$$ from NCAA units.

[DudeAnon]

If Val wants to expand for whatever reasons. Gonzaga and UCONN should be priority #1. After that, VCU and Dayton. SLU is awful right now, and I wouldn't make a bet that they are quick to rebound (aka "The Depaul bet").

[adoraz]

The only 4 teams that should be seriously considered are UConn, Gonzaga, VCU, and Dayton. That doesn't make them the best candidates because of football, travelling, etc. But outside of that group nobody is currently worthy of joining.