Selection Sunday Discussion

[ecasadoSBU]

I expressed my concerns a couple of weeks back in regards to the methodology used by the NCAA to select teams. The fallout of not using the RPI is gonna destroy whatever is left of the mid major stars. The lack of transparency and the use of competing indexes (KP, RPI, Saragin, etc) will only make it easier to drop mid-majors in favor of Power-5. We saw it this time around. They picked and choose and apply whatever index they wanted for each case on an arbitrary basis. It's sad but get ready for the Big East to get busted a few years down the line. We might be smiling right now. But it's gonna get ugly in a few years when the P5 turns against us. Syracuse has no business in the NCAA this year, Michigan and Vandy shouldn't be in either... and Tulsa? WTF?

Both Providence and Seton Hall where underseeded by a line as per Bracketmatrix. It's gonna get uglier on the future. the NCAA is becoming more exclusionary every year

For me is more important having a transparent index that gets used at all times than selecting the best 68 teams. You will never truly select the best 68 teams. What truly matters is transparency and choosing the best qualified teams according a metric that everyone knows and understand. Otherwise its just cheating and Power-5 bias

[SJUBBALL]

Horrible, horrible, horrible job by the committee this year...


Seton Hall got absolutely screwed. Not only should they have been better then a 6 seed, they get shipped out to Denver to play gonzaga. Eerily similar to the 2011 St John's team. In fact this is the same exact situation, that was in Denver, and also a 6-11 game. St. John's got smoked.

At least Seton Hall is healthy and playing good basketball. But I remember that year well, an underachieving gonzaga team came in playing loose with the underdog mentality and couldn't miss from three. I fear for the Pirates. I also feel bad, they earned a better seed or at least a better situation.

Butler and Providence both in tough situations. If either of them could've gotten Oregon in that second round game, I'd feel more confident.

Xavier should be fine as long as they play their game and play well I see them in the sweet sixteen.

I took a peak at the nova board, and they are feeling very confident. I am too. Iowa will beat temple, I almost guarantee it, and nova will beat Iowa by 12+.

[stever20]

It’s nice to read the “Bona got hosed” comments in this thread, especially considering how I heard your overall assessment of our program compared to the Big East on the expansion forum.

My Bonnies got completely shafted, and your league got disrespected in seeding. Nova 7 and Xavier 8 on the overall seed list? Hall a 6? Nova in the South region and not going through Philly? The BCS Cartel is out to destroy us.

I’m brutally realistic and I understand the difference between “better team” and “better resume.” (Hence my Expansion talk: Your nine “better teams” gives 4-5 of you “worse resumes” than you deserve). And I don’t pretend our 29 RPI means our team is 27 spots better than Butler.

That being said, St. Bonaventure got HISTORICALLY SHAFTED:
> highest conference regular season champ left out
> highest Dance card left out
> First Palm lock ever left out

Of the eight Top 54 RPI teams left out, someone said they aren’t murderers row. Well, we stand out compared to those seven. They’re from one-bid leagues, where the second-best team in the league had zero chance of an at-large.

None of those teams had a Top 25 RPI win. We had THREE. Two on the road. You know who had multiple Top 25 RPI road wins this season? Kansas (2), Oklahoma (2), Iowa (2), St. Bonaventure (2). End of List. If you want to include No. 26 Arizona, then Oregon makes the list, too. When we’re on the list with four teams who were in serious No. 1 seed conversations at some point this season (Iowa fell off the map), that’s saying something.


If we’re going to get slammed four our 152 OOC SOS, there’s three things in response:

#1 - These people don’t even know what that means. The 152 OOC SOS was .508 opponents win percentage. Colorado got in at 133. The difference between theres and ours would be: If one of our opponents played each other, and our opponent beat theirs, we’d swap places.
(And if Syracuse gets a pass on 3 losses with Boeheim out for cheating, why don’t we get those three losses off our SOS? That would give us the No. 123 OOC SOS.

#2 - Cincinnati was 148, Indiana 190, Seton Hall 231, Arizona 235, Butler 245. I’m not criticizing BE teams on the list. I’m just saying, moving the Goalposts, don’t you think? Hall & Butler proved it by beating great teams in Big East play. I think our three wins over Dayton & St. Joe’s should have us seeded behind Hall & Butler, but easily within the field.

#3 - These cartel ADs on the committee saying “You didn’t play anyone OOC” are the same guys who won’t return our calls when we go to schedule. ONE BCS team has been willing to play us in the RC since 1999. Syracuse hasn’t played in the RC since Chernenko was running the USSR. Michigan State’s AD is on the committee, the Spartans have played one “mid-major” on the road since 2009. Oklahoma’s AD is the chair, the Sooners have played at ONE mid-major on the road since 2010, and it was at Tulsa, Joe Castilgione’s bed buddy.

The Entire BCS cartel played 67 games against non-cartel teams in the Top 70 of the RPI this season, and went 36-31. They’re ducking us. And almost all of them they didn’t schedule, but ran into at tournaments. They played 10 true road games against Non-Cartel teams. They went 3-7. Including GW over Virginia and Dayton over Alabama.

You CANNOT criticize us for not landing punches when you’re the one refusing to get in the ring and fight.


Anyhow, thanks for the kind words about us getting screwed to many of you. Hope the Big East rocks every BCS program by 40 in the Big Dance and only loses to the A-10.

I don't think the Big East really got screwed. Xavier 8 is pretty much exactly where the bracketology thought they would be. Nova at 7 was only 1 spot lower than the bracketology said- and it was to Oklahoma, so head to head means something there....
Seton Hall at 24- they were #21 on bracket matrix. Hardly a huge difference. Nova not being in the East I said it way early. they don't put 1's at a disadvantage like that.

And about St Bonnie's how can a team like Monmouth get those games, and you can't? Part of it is you didn't do an exempt tourney where you can get those big games OOC some times.

[herodotus]

It’s nice to read the “Bona got hosed” comments in this thread, especially considering how I heard your overall assessment of our program compared to the Big East on the expansion forum.

My Bonnies got completely shafted, and your league got disrespected in seeding. Nova 7 and Xavier 8 on the overall seed list? Hall a 6? Nova in the South region and not going through Philly? The BCS Cartel is out to destroy us.

I’m brutally realistic and I understand the difference between “better team” and “better resume.” (Hence my Expansion talk: Your nine “better teams” gives 4-5 of you “worse resumes” than you deserve). And I don’t pretend our 29 RPI means our team is 27 spots better than Butler.

That being said, St. Bonaventure got HISTORICALLY SHAFTED:
> highest conference regular season champ left out
> highest Dance card left out
> First Palm lock ever left out

Of the eight Top 54 RPI teams left out, someone said they aren’t murderers row. Well, we stand out compared to those seven. They’re from one-bid leagues, where the second-best team in the league had zero chance of an at-large.

None of those teams had a Top 25 RPI win. We had THREE. Two on the road. You know who had multiple Top 25 RPI road wins this season? Kansas (2), Oklahoma (2), Iowa (2), St. Bonaventure (2). End of List. If you want to include No. 26 Arizona, then Oregon makes the list, too. When we’re on the list with four teams who were in serious No. 1 seed conversations at some point this season (Iowa fell off the map), that’s saying something.


If we’re going to get slammed four our 152 OOC SOS, there’s three things in response:

#1 - These people don’t even know what that means. The 152 OOC SOS was .508 opponents win percentage. Colorado got in at 133. The difference between theres and ours would be: If one of our opponents played each other, and our opponent beat theirs, we’d swap places.
(And if Syracuse gets a pass on 3 losses with Boeheim out for cheating, why don’t we get those three losses off our SOS? That would give us the No. 123 OOC SOS.

#2 - Cincinnati was 148, Indiana 190, Seton Hall 231, Arizona 235, Butler 245. I’m not criticizing BE teams on the list. I’m just saying, moving the Goalposts, don’t you think? Hall & Butler proved it by beating great teams in Big East play. I think our three wins over Dayton & St. Joe’s should have us seeded behind Hall & Butler, but easily within the field.

#3 - These cartel ADs on the committee saying “You didn’t play anyone OOC” are the same guys who won’t return our calls when we go to schedule. ONE BCS team has been willing to play us in the RC since 1999. Syracuse hasn’t played in the RC since Chernenko was running the USSR. Michigan State’s AD is on the committee, the Spartans have played one “mid-major” on the road since 2009. Oklahoma’s AD is the chair, the Sooners have played at ONE mid-major on the road since 2010, and it was at Tulsa, Joe Castilgione’s bed buddy.

The Entire BCS cartel played 67 games against non-cartel teams in the Top 70 of the RPI this season, and went 36-31. They’re ducking us. And almost all of them they didn’t schedule, but ran into at tournaments. They played 10 true road games against Non-Cartel teams. They went 3-7. Including GW over Virginia and Dayton over Alabama.

You CANNOT criticize us for not landing punches when you’re the one refusing to get in the ring and fight.


Anyhow, thanks for the kind words about us getting screwed to many of you. Hope the Big East rocks every BCS program by 40 in the Big Dance and only loses to the A-10.

I don't think the Big East really got screwed. Xavier 8 is pretty much exactly where the bracketology thought they would be. Nova at 7 was only 1 spot lower than the bracketology said- and it was to Oklahoma, so head to head means something there....
Seton Hall at 24- they were #21 on bracket matrix. Hardly a huge difference. Nova not being in the East I said it way early. they don't put 1's at a disadvantage like that.

And about St Bonnie's how can a team like Monmouth get those games, and you can't? Part of it is you didn't do an exempt tourney where you can get those big games OOC some times.

The A10 doesn't allow it's teams to take more than one buy game a year. Also, when looking for easy home games, the P5 powers prefer to avoid games against teams that might be dangerous. No one expects a MAAC team to be a threat. The better A 10 teams are viewed as dangerous. The exempt tourneys don't want teams like Bona, because they don't want to risk their marquee being upset, and not reaching the final. Monmouth was mistakenly viewed as garbage, which is why they got those chances.

[stever20]

ok but where was SB's buy game?

Also look at the difference between the AAC and A10 in terms of who they can get to come play them at home.

[NovaBall]

The committee was fine. Only head scratcher was tulsa.

It was not a big boys favoritism anymore than most years. And that is fine for the big east as we usually have good wins. We are one of the big boys.

Seton hall and providence are where they should be, and butler is over seeded.

[marquette]

I don't mean to be mean to Bonas, but I doubt they have the money for that buy game. They are probably in one of the tougher situations in D1. Very small school, not a huge population base to draw fans from, too good to get paid for going on the road, not a big enough name to draw marquee home/homes. It is a really tough spot to be in. They recently had to put seats between their student section and the court in order to raise revenue, which I believe was supposed to make something like an extra $50k a year. That's maybe enough to afford a decent buy game.

[Flyer75]

I don't mean to be mean to Bonas, but I doubt they have the money for that buy game. They are probably in one of the tougher situations in D1. Very small school, not a huge population base to draw fans from, too good to get paid for going on the road, not a big enough name to draw marquee home/homes. It is a really tough spot to be in. They recently had to put seats between their student section and the court in order to raise revenue, which I believe was supposed to make something like an extra $50k a year. That's maybe enough to afford a decent buy game.

Probably some truth to this. Bona is like the 3rd smallest D1 school playing D1 hoops (I think...I know they are tiny).

Also, it's not easy to get regular invites to exempt tourneys. For the A10 it's only Dayton and VCU (and of course X and Temple when they were in the A10) and then sometimes GW, St. Joes, Umass and Davidson. Dayton has been pretty much guaranteed an invite to the ESPN ones every single year because....$$$$$$. Dayton brings fans (even if we sucked we'd be half the ticket sales)...same with VCU. Money talks for these exempt tourney. You can't just put your name in and say "hey, we're SBU, let us in". So how did Monmouth get in to the best exempt tourney this year? The Orlando tourney is hosted by the MAAC. They get a MAAC team automatically every year. Rider was in it a couple years ago I remember.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AdvoCare_Invitational

[stever20]

I don't mean to be mean to Bonas, but I doubt they have the money for that buy game. They are probably in one of the tougher situations in D1. Very small school, not a huge population base to draw fans from, too good to get paid for going on the road, not a big enough name to draw marquee home/homes. It is a really tough spot to be in. They recently had to put seats between their student section and the court in order to raise revenue, which I believe was supposed to make something like an extra $50k a year. That's maybe enough to afford a decent buy game.

Probably some truth to this. Bona is like the 3rd smallest D1 school playing D1 hoops (I think...I know they are tiny).

Also, it's not easy to get regular invites to exempt tourneys. For the A10 it's only Dayton and VCU and then sometimes GW, St. Joes, Umass and Davidson. Dayton has been pretty much guaranteed an invite to the ESPN ones every single year because....$$$$$$. Dayton brings fans (even if we sucked we'd be half the ticket sales)...same with VCU. Money talks for these exempt tourney. You can't just put your name in and say "hey, we're SBU, let us in". So how did Monmouth get in to the best exempt tourney this year? The Orlando tourney is hosted by the MAAC. They get a MAAC team automatically every year. Rider is in it next year.

well then the A10 may need to look into something similar with the exempt tournaments.

Also quite frankly- if they don't lose to La Salle, they're probably in right now. They would be the outright conference champions.

[BEX]

Bonnies were CO-CHAMPIONS of their League with a 29 rpi. They beat the A-10 tournament winner TWICE. Clearly there were some shenanigans with the Tulsa invite. 0fer 59 in bracket predictions? Fix was in.