Big East - General Recruiting Thread

[NovaBall]

Seton Hall absolutely wants everyone to return, and I think they will.

This Seton Hall team is built to be a national contender in 2017 and 2018. It is similar to the Villanova team of Ray/Foye/Sumpter. They need to max out this class and see what happens.

And in the meantime, they can add some other pieces for when those guys graduate, like Myles Powell and whoever they add for 2018. And we all know they will take a step back and have to rebuild, but it is nothing like the Rysheed Jordan, Harrison type of situation that St. John's had. This Seton Hall situation is much more stable.

I don't see Whitehead or Delgado going pro this year. Maybe Whitehead next year, but even that's not a guarantee.

[NovaBall]

Another big thing that recruiting classes need are program guys. Guys who might pass up more playing time earlier in their careers so that they can develop with a better team and hopefully crack the rotation as an upper classman. Guys like this are huge for program stability. Not every guy you recruit should be the 4 or 5 star guy looking to be an immediate impact player. Need to have a mix.

Dylan Painter is an example of that for Villanova. I hope he red-shirts, he will probably ride pine his first couple years, but then as a junior he might crack the rotation, and hopefully as a 24 year old senior he will be a nice contributor. Similar to a James Farr type player, or what we have seen from Darryl Reynolds this year.

Dwayne Anderson for Villanova was one of these guys on the Final Four team. He rode pine until this time of year his junior. Then he found himself in the rotation, was a real nice spark, and was a huge cog in the wheel for the Final Four team. Even Dante Cunningham was seen as a program project guy, unranked out of high school, got a little run as a freshman, but by senior year he was the leading scorer on a Final Four team and he is still collecting NBA checks.

Darrun Hilliard was one of these guys. Unranked player, but one that was going to hopefully develop into a contributor. He was considered the 4th best recruit that year (Marcus Kennedy, Ty Johnson and Ash Yacoubu all considered better). But by junior year he emerged as a good player, as a senior he was all American, and now he's cashing NBA checks.

It might be a half decade from now, but don't be surprised if Dylan Painter is a similar factor in the league as say a James Farr is now.

[marquette]

The good thing about the BIG EAST recruiting is that all the teams are recruiting well.

Sure the SEC or ACC might pull some more of the top 25/50 talent. But those guys all end up at the same few schools, and the other schools are running around trying to find guys in the 100-200 range. The BIG EAST has nine of the ten schools recruiting well.

Not really true. Look at the top 54 right now.
Miami 6
Miss St 7
Florida St 10
Texas 11
Alabama 12
Oregon 15
Penn St 18
Auburn 19
Minnesota 20
Arkansas 26
Texas A&M 28
Ariz St 31
USC 38
Ga Tech 40

Duke, Kentucky, Mich St, UCLA, Virginia, UCLA all in the top 10 like normal....

So it's no where near the same few schools any more. More and more of the football schools going in on basketball now. I mean- Auburn and Alabama in the top 20? 5 of the 7 teams in the SEC west are in the top 30 recruiting classes this year. Let that sink in a bit

You have a very short memory. Do you really need me to pull out all the stats on the crappy F5 schools that keep pulling in top 20 classes but do absolutely nothing with them? And since you mentioned Alabama specifically as a school that hasn't historically recruited well...
2005-10
2008-16
2011-14

Much as you'd like to treat it like a new thing that the Alabamas, Arkansas(s), and Texas(s) (seriously?) of the world get some good classes this has been the case forever. Far and away one of your weakest arguments to try and tear down the Big East.

[marquette]

you can't go back 4 years ago because the split hadn't taken place yet. You ALWAYS want to include the 2013 class, that was signed before the split was even talked about, let alone done.....

Also if you want to ding Penn St, you have to ding Seton Hall because all of their damage was in 1 class. Also, Penn St last year did get 2 4 star guys and a 3 star guy, so it's not like that's a nothing class. It was like #43 in the nation last year.

If Kentucky gets the #1 player for 4 years in a row, that is better than Nova's approach. Just look at Kentucky's performances in the tourney. Missed one year due to injuries- but other 5 years elite 8 all 5 years and final 4 in 4 of those. If you give me a choice of having a top 10 NBA level player for one year for 4 straight years, or a guy who might develop into what Hart is- I take the 4 years of NBA players every single time. The upside is much higher with the NBA guys, and there is no guarantee that the #70 player develops. Yeah you might have a year like this where things don't work out for Kentucky- but those have been few and far between. I'll take my chances with 4-5 5 star players every day of the week.

First of all, 4 years is a perfectly valid period and the fact is that many BE schools are recruiting better now than in the old Big East. Your opinion is not fact and frankly, as a non-Big East fan, not really worth a whole lot here.

[NJRedman]

Seton Hall absolutely wants everyone to return, and I think they will.

This Seton Hall team is built to be a national contender in 2017 and 2018. It is similar to the Villanova team of Ray/Foye/Sumpter. They need to max out this class and see what happens.

And in the meantime, they can add some other pieces for when those guys graduate, like Myles Powell and whoever they add for 2018. And we all know they will take a step back and have to rebuild, but it is nothing like the Rysheed Jordan, Harrison type of situation that St. John's had. This Seton Hall situation is much more stable.

I don't see Whitehead or Delgado going pro this year. Maybe Whitehead next year, but even that's not a guarantee.

How do you tell kids they are going to be getting playing time when they have to sit behind these current players for 2 more years? If you think Seton Hall is stable then I have yet another bridge for sale.

[NovaBall]

Seton Hall has Myles Powell coming in next year, and he should be in the rotation. So you are really only recruiting one year of kids who will have to sit.

And most freshmen should be willing to sit early in their careers. It should be the exception Tha freshmen come in and play 25+ mpg and start. Guys like Ellenson and brunson, sure, they are the top rated guys at their position out of high school. Bridges and sumner are red shirts.

Programs aren't built off recruiting kids looking for immediate playing time. If that is a school's selling pointthey are pretty much saying that the program is not good and we need immediate help. Of course a program like kentucky is different, but outside of the few programs that reload going after kids demanding immediate playing time is fool's gold.

Josh hart didn't start until his jr yr. Darrun hiloiard didn't start until his jr yr. Jayvaughn Pinkston was a McDonald's all american who came off the bench and was a 6th man of the year. Mikal ?Bridges is coming off the bench. Dante cunningham came off the bench for years. Heck, kyle Lowry didn't start, and would not have started, until Curtis sumpter got hurt.

[Xudash]

you can't go back 4 years ago because the split hadn't taken place yet. You ALWAYS want to include the 2013 class, that was signed before the split was even talked about, let alone done.....

Also if you want to ding Penn St, you have to ding Seton Hall because all of their damage was in 1 class. Also, Penn St last year did get 2 4 star guys and a 3 star guy, so it's not like that's a nothing class. It was like #43 in the nation last year.

If Kentucky gets the #1 player for 4 years in a row, that is better than Nova's approach. Just look at Kentucky's performances in the tourney. Missed one year due to injuries- but other 5 years elite 8 all 5 years and final 4 in 4 of those. If you give me a choice of having a top 10 NBA level player for one year for 4 straight years, or a guy who might develop into what Hart is- I take the 4 years of NBA players every single time. The upside is much higher with the NBA guys, and there is no guarantee that the #70 player develops. Yeah you might have a year like this where things don't work out for Kentucky- but those have been few and far between. I'll take my chances with 4-5 5 star players every day of the week.

First of all, 4 years is a perfectly valid period and the fact is that many BE schools are recruiting better now than in the old Big East. Your opinion is not fact and frankly, as a non-Big East fan, not really worth a whole lot here.

To your point, though X wasn't in the old Big East, our collective Big East has made a HUGE difference in Xavier's recruiting:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25480629/marine-made-trevon-bluiett-has-the-training-and-skill-to-command-a-xavier-run

Here's the key excerpt:

There was one other vital aspect to Bluiett landing at Xavier: The Big East. Had Xavier remained in the Atlantic 10, Reynardo said his son would have gone elsewhere. The conference realignment that put this program into the Big East was a clinching part.

"That conference (the A-10) was not the right conference for Trey," Reynardo Bluiett said. "When Xavier got to the Big East, that changed things."

Those machinations across college athletics two, three, four years ago changed the landscape in so many ways. This development at Xaver is a micro look at how schools, programs and coaches are affected.

[GumbyDamnit!]

you can't go back 4 years ago because the split hadn't taken place yet. You ALWAYS want to include the 2013 class, that was signed before the split was even talked about, let alone done.....

Also if you want to ding Penn St, you have to ding Seton Hall because all of their damage was in 1 class. Also, Penn St last year did get 2 4 star guys and a 3 star guy, so it's not like that's a nothing class. It was like #43 in the nation last year.

If Kentucky gets the #1 player for 4 years in a row, that is better than Nova's approach. Just look at Kentucky's performances in the tourney. Missed one year due to injuries- but other 5 years elite 8 all 5 years and final 4 in 4 of those. If you give me a choice of having a top 10 NBA level player for one year for 4 straight years, or a guy who might develop into what Hart is- I take the 4 years of NBA players every single time. The upside is much higher with the NBA guys, and there is no guarantee that the #70 player develops. Yeah you might have a year like this where things don't work out for Kentucky- but those have been few and far between. I'll take my chances with 4-5 5 star players every day of the week.

See what you do. You invalidate any team that is unable to bring in 6 McD AA's just because UK or Duke can. EVERYONE IN THE UNIVERSE UNDERSTANDS THAT UK CAN OUT-RECRUIT THE REST OF THE COUNTRY. THAT is not breaking news. They are the exception not the rule. There are maybe 5 teams that can enter a recruiting arms race (UK, KU, Duke, Ariz, maybe UNC or now Maryland with UA's help). On talent alone they are going to make 6 out of 8 elite 8's.

So the fact that you are trying to judge the BE vs UK in straight up recruiting is just about the most ridiculous thing ever. Nova and the BE can't bring in 6 McD's AA's so they should just concede yearly to those who can? NO!!! They adjust by getting guys with upside who develop over time. Wisconsin used this same strategy last year and I believe they won the FF game vs that UK all-star team. So I'm not sure how you can just point to UK as the blue print as no one else can mirror their talent acquisition strategy and they don't win it all every year anyway.

But you also won't admit the obvious. Diallo and Labissierre were the two best post players in this years recruiting class. Are either better than Ochefu and Farr in 2016? Is Briscoe better than Dunn? Of course not. And the reason they are not is that Ochefu, Farr and Dunn had 3-4 years to get stronger and hone their craft. So judging that only those programs that bring in top 20 kids every year are "winning" the recruiting battles is basically dismissing the sole strategy that can defeat undeniable talent: maturity and development. And if you are unwilling to recognize that a Sr who was 45th in his class is usually a much better player in that single college BB season than the Frosh who was ranked 25th, than this debate is pointless.

[MackNova]

The issue with the Big East is that they don't get the elite recruits. Ironically, the league has as many elite PLAYERS as any team in the league with Dunn, Ellenson, Hart, Bentil, Bluiett, but most aren't elite recruits. In 2015 and 2016, the only top-25 recruits (looking at ESPN) are Ellenson, Spellman and Brunson. It would be nice for the league to get more top-end guys. And even those guys aren't the top-10 types.

I recognize that the programs in this league probably aren't going to be signing too many top-10 kids, but it would be nice to get more.

[Jet915]

The only teams that are capable of landing top 10 kids in this league are Villanova and Georgetown IMO. Yes, i know Ellenson went to Marquette. ...