Big East - General Recruiting Thread

[NJRedman]

NJRedman, not looking to get into a pissing match with you, I understand your comments are more directed at NovaBall for past comments and conversations you have had, but Villanova is not falling of it's perch anytime soon and trust me, Villanova, and the ENTIRE Big East, welcomes a successful St. John's program.

We backed off Rawle Alkins the same way we backed off Rysheed Jordan. I am not saying we would have gotten these guys but Jay Wright doesn't recruit for the sake of recruiting, Jay recruits to fill a need. This year we needed big men, and Jay got those, and considering he brought in a Top 20 big man, I think he did pretty well. I follow recruiting very closely, trust me, it is a lot harder to land a legit Top big man than it is to land a legit Top guard, considering the fact A LOT of big men are projects who are raw and are recruited based on their potential.

For 2017, our need will be guards. You can save my response if you want to, but I can promise you Jay will be bringing in 2 Top 100 guards. Our recruiting is still VERY much on track.

The comment was more about being above us than falling off at the top of the conference. His comments are pretty much saying we got a bunch of average players thats why our rankings are so high because we got a lot of kids. All he does is insult other posters here either right up front about it or backhanded like he did above.

[adoraz]

SJU class beats Nova's class, that's not debatable. Unlike last year, this year every new player is a top 100 4 star player. LoVett, Ponds, Ahmed, Freudenberg. That's why we are ranked #17 overall and #1 in the Big East (and that's not including LoVett).

Obviously SJU has much more of a need for recruits this year, so the purpose of this post is not that we're suddenly a better recruiting school than Nova. This is directed at NovaBall, who goes out of his way to discredit SJU.

[MackNova]

In my opinion, Villanova has 2 incoming players better than anyone St. John's has coming in, so in that sense, Villanova has a better class. But it's apples to orange comparing Villanova and St. John's classes. They have different goals. Villanova doesn't like to use all its scholarships, and we want to get quality players who fit the system. In Spellman and Paschall, Villanova got a 5-star big man, and the rookie of the year in a top-10 conference. Villanova hit a home run with those two.

Spellman is the best incoming recruit in the league according to Rivals and ESPN. Paschall averaged 15.9 PPG and 5.5 RPG last season and is a very good athlete. Ponds may have more long-term upside, but is he better than a 3rd-year college player who has proven he can play at a high level? I highly doubt it. I don't know much about Freudenberg, but on paper, I'd take Spellman and Paschall.

Villanova and St. John's have different needs. Villanova needs top recruits to maintain the level they've been playing at. Spellman is that, and Paschall looks the part, too. St. John's just needs quality players, and lots of them. And it got a number of them. I hope they get more.

Both have good recruiting classes for what each program needs. Hopefully, St. John's pulls in another stud to round out their class.

[ChestRockwell85]

SJU fans, this is not me bashing SJU at all, but it is like how quickly have you forgotten about Lavin's 2010 recruiting class? That class was ranked THIRD IN THE COUNTRY (Pointer, Harrison, Sampson, Harkless, Lindsey) and he still failed to win a single tournament game. It takes more than one solid recruiting class to build a program.

St. John's fans have every right to be excited, I know I would be, but if that 2010 class taught you anything, a lot of things can happen. I really feel Mullin needs to bring in another strong class in 2017 and probably 2018 to start to solidify long term success for St. John's. I would love to see it happen. A strong St. John's is good for the Big East.

[adoraz]

NC State has a 1 player recruiting class, 5 star player Dennis Smith. By your guys logic NC State has a better class than SJU and Nova since he is better than anyone either team has coming in.

It's possible that Nova's 2 players are better than any of SJU's 4 players. However, Ahmed is the best JUCO transfer (and I believe player), so he's already a bit proven. Ponds just missed out on the AA game and was one of the first ones out (according to NY Post). LoVett was a 4 star top 100 player last year but his ranking wasn't as high as it should have been due to eligibility issues and confusion over which year he would declare (and those people, some of who openly said they were ranking him lower for eligibility issues, were right). Freudenberg is also a top 100 player and according to Jeff Borzello would be a top 40 player if he played in America. 247 has him at 50.

As I said, I agree it's very possible Nova's 2 players are better than any of the 4 players SJU is bringing in, however the gap isn't large and all of SJU's players are 4 star, top 50 caliber.

I'd wager that most coaches would take SJU's incoming class over Nova's (or NC State's), and that's what this comes down to. Again, once you reach that 4 star top 50 player territory just about any coach in America would take you and Nova has 2 of those players while SJU has 4.

[adoraz]

SJU fans, this is not me bashing SJU at all, but it is like how quickly have you forgotten about Lavin's 2010 recruiting class? That class was ranked THIRD IN THE COUNTRY (Pointer, Harrison, Sampson, Harkless, Lindsey) and he still failed to win a single tournament game. It takes more than one solid recruiting class to build a program.

St. John's fans have every right to be excited, I know I would be, but if that 2010 class taught you anything, a lot of things can happen. I really feel Mullin needs to bring in another strong class in 2017 and probably 2018 to start to solidify long term success for St. John's. I would love to see it happen. A strong St. John's is good for the Big East.

Lavin was let go because he grossly underperformed with the talent he had. So we're well aware things don't always work out but we're also aware of how things should pan out.

[ChestRockwell85]

adoraz, if I had no players I would take St. John's class because you have more players coming in, and yes, they are good, but I think you St. John's guys are still missing the point, and THE POINT is, Mullin is building something from scratch, Jay has already built something and is just bringing in players to fill a specific need and replace guys who are graduating. So with that being said the recruiting classes are going to look different. This year Jay's need was size, and again, he got that.

Let me ask you something, do you honestly think Jay Wright couldn't have brought in at least ONE guard in 2016 if he wanted to? There are A LOT....A LOT of guards who would LOVE to play in Jay Wright's system, and he didn't bring in one. The reason being again, is Jay doesn't over-recruit, he recruits the positions he needs and he doesn't create logjams.

At this point I don't care if you guys believe me or not, but Jay backed off Alkins for that very reason, yes academics were a concern, but he also didn't want to create a logjam once we got Paschall. This is the truth.

Jay got what he needed, and in 2017, he will bring in 2 big time guards. Simple as that.

[Red Rooster]

SJU fans, this is not me bashing SJU at all, but it is like how quickly have you forgotten about Lavin's 2010 recruiting class? That class was ranked THIRD IN THE COUNTRY (Pointer, Harrison, Sampson, Harkless, Lindsey) and he still failed to win a single tournament game. It takes more than one solid recruiting class to build a program.

St. John's fans have every right to be excited, I know I would be, but if that 2010 class taught you anything, a lot of things can happen. I really feel Mullin needs to bring in another strong class in 2017 and probably 2018 to start to solidify long term success for St. John's. I would love to see it happen. A strong St. John's is good for the Big East.

I guess you forgot Norvel Pelle was a part of that number 3 recruiting class. Pelle was considered to be the #1 or #2 center in the 2011 class, but never played a game for St. John's. Amir Garrett played a season and a half for St. John's before taking his game to the baseball mound. Harkless entered the NBA Draft after one season. Lindsey bailed out after only playing half of a season. Sampson ended up being a part of the 2012 class, and only played two seasons. Harrison (his sophomore season) was booted off the team midway through the Big East conference season, when the Johnnies was in a position to vie for a tournament bid. Facts.

So, in essence, their #3 class never actually played together or played long enough together. If that entire group had played together 2 or 3 years, then you'd have a point. Unfortunately, for Johnnies fans, that wasn't the case. I do feel things would've been differently had that entire 2011 class played together for a couple of seasons or more.

One solid recruiting class won't do it (nor do I recall anyone saying it would do it for the Johnnies long term), but it can get the ball rolling. St. John's will also have LoVett, Owens, and Williams (who was a JUCO AA, but reinjured his shoulder) joining the fray. Another solid recruiting class or two, and they could be on their way.

[ChestRockwell85]

Red Rooster, I was going off memory but thank you for the reminder, I had forgotten all the details, but that is why I wrote "a lot of things can happen." I am not trying to be insulting, but I guess my point was since other highly rated recruiting classes didn't necessarily pan out, wait until you start to have success on the court with the recruits Mullin has coming in before you start throwing out lines like, "I can't wait to shove all of this talk right back in your face, if you ever show it here again when Nova falls off it's perch." This is no offense to NJRedmen, I have no beef with him at all and I understand who it was directed towards, but that was the reason for my response.

Anyway, Jay Wright's first big time recruiting class at Villanova came in his first year as well. That class was Curtis Sumpter, Randy Foye, Allan Ray, and Jason Fraser. Sumpter and Fraser both played injured for a good part of their careers, but even with a class like that, we didn't make the tournament until they were juniors and Jay needed to recruit a supporting cast (Nardi, Sheridan, Lowry) for them to do so.

In 2011-2012, we went 13-19 and we had 3 McDonald's All-Americans (Wayns, Pinkson, Cheek) on our team and a 5 star / Top 20 player (Yarou). On paper that team should have been in the tournament.

So my point is, going back to "a lot of things can happen", wait and see how recruiting classes pan out because a lot of times, what you see on paper, is not what you are going to get on the court.

To conclude, I think Mullin is going to make it happen, I don't see him slowing down anytime soon.

[REDMEN1415]

SJU fans, this is not me bashing SJU at all, but it is like how quickly have you forgotten about Lavin's 2010 recruiting class? That class was ranked THIRD IN THE COUNTRY (Pointer, Harrison, Sampson, Harkless, Lindsey) and he still failed to win a single tournament game. It takes more than one solid recruiting class to build a program.

St. John's fans have every right to be excited, I know I would be, but if that 2010 class taught you anything, a lot of things can happen. I really feel Mullin needs to bring in another strong class in 2017 and probably 2018 to start to solidify long term success for St. John's. I would love to see it happen. A strong St. John's is good for the Big East.

Yeah well after that 2010 class, that sob got lazy and stopped recruiting. To me he's the reason SJU's will have it's worst season ever.
Just sucks that out greatest player ever is head coach of our worst team ever.

Mullin, Slice and Matt won't get lazy, trust me on that. I really believe Mullin will lead the school that loves to bigger things then where they were in the 80s.
Then i'll think back to Mullins first year, sit back, and just smile.