Villanova

[NovaBall]

Put it this way:
If Xavier loses in rd 2 this yr against cal or Oregon or gonzaga or whomever as a 7-10 seed, I won't consider them to have embarrassed themselves or let anyone down.

Quite the opposite. I will thank them for joining Villanova as a nationally respected contender and building the reputation of the conference, and showing the nation that we are not just a bunch of borderline top 25 teams praying for an upset run to the sweet 16 as their super bowl.

Like in the earlier years of the big east and Syracuse with Pearl Washington lost as a 2 seed to navy in the rd of 32. I didn't view that as an embarrassment for the new big east. I didn't view Pearl Washington as an embarrassment because he never won more than one game in any single ncaa tourney.

And Pearl Washington's Syracuse days, despite never winning more than one game in the dance, are much more fondly remembered in terms of building big east credibility than Austin croshere's fluke run to the 1998 elite 8. What do you think is a bigger building block for the old big east: Pearl washington's career at Syracuse in which they never won more than one tourney game, of Doug west's run to the elite 8 in 1988 for Villanova. It's not even close really. On that same note, the 2000 St. John's team was better than last year's Xavier team that made the magical run past Georgia state.

Some of you need to shed the Atlantic ten mindset. You are now the big boys. And you know what, sometimes the big boys get upset. Sometimes Duke loses to Marist or Lehigh, or nova falls to NYC state, or Syracuse loses to Vermont, or Georgetown loses to Florida gulf coast. But let's not go pretending that catching a 14 seed in the round of 32 suddenly makes a mediocre season better than those aforementioned teams that got upset.


Oh yeah, and after Syracuse kept knocking on the door but getting shut out early year after year in the Pearl Washington days, by yr 9 of the big east they made their run to the national championship game. Just keep getting good seeds and the wins will come.

[xu2002]

Some of you need to shed the Atlantic ten mindset. You are now the big boys.

Not sure where the Xavier directed anger is coming from on this thread with the Atlantic Ten comments. Xavier can only play the league they are a part of and play the teams on their schedule. In the past 10 years, 8 of which were part of the Atlantic Ten, they have 12 NCAA tournament wins. The same amount as Villanova. Given the disadvantage of playing in the Atlantic 10 for 8 of those years and Coach Mack having to rebuild his team from nothing the past 3 years based on unfortunate events, I would argue they've done quite well. This year things are obviously coming together this year and the hope is they'll make a deep run, but as everyone is aware, things happen and we'll cross that path in March. Both teams are setting themselves up for a high seed based on their play to date. Hopefully that continues and the Big East can have two or more teams advance deep into the tournament.

I do not feel any anger or resentment toward Villanova for the past two years of tournament performances. As others have said, I would have wished Xavier could have had season those years like they and Villanova are this year. People can get too caught up in perception. The perception of the Big East is far and away better than it was two years ago. Post season performance cannot erase that.

There's no point in arguing about events from the past few years. We're less than two months away from a new opportunity for all teams to make history. I'll be rooting for all Big East teams along the way, unless they happen to play Xavier!

[NovaBall]

The idea that having a mediocre season but pull an upset in rd 2 against whomever to advance to the sweet 16 is better than having a dominant season but get upset oooozes saint josephs (pa) logic. That's where that comment comes from.

hey, I'm on board with Xavier becoming a national contender instead of the little guy that could. But with that will come an upset here or there. Doesn't mean the little guy who could that pulled the rd 2 upset had the better season. You will see. Big east fans rave over Pearl Washington moreso than they do Austin croshere (and Austin croshere was a basket away from a final four)

I hope that you don't experience that early rd upset this yr, as I hope to meet you guys in the final four.


And you are correct the perception of the league is much better than three yrs ago when it was formed. But let's realize that having a team seeded in the top five if the s-curve two straight years goes a long way towards that credibility. Things didn't work in the dance, but better to have the team earn that spot and the respect and fall short than to have had all of our teams borderline top 25-40 types praying for a sweet 16

[RedStormHoops]

Jeez. Nova fans can dish it but just can't take it.

NovaBall and others love to police the league, suggesting DePaul shouldn't even be in the conference and things like that. But you make a few comments suggesting dissapointment at how nova ended their last two seasons, and all of the sudden you're a bad guy.

[NovaBall]

Because without nova the last two seasons we have no cred. Without nova the big east would be ridiculed at this point.

Mc buckets was nice, and added a lot, but they went out rd 2
Xavier's magical win over Georgia southern doesn't really mean much in the big picture landscape of college hoops.

It was good to see PC make the dance twice, Georgetown and the johnnies as well butler. But they didn't do anything either.

So, in other words, without nova the last two years bringing the cinference into the high end of the conversation, the league would be in serious trouble. It would be compared to the old Atlantic ten. A bunch of borderline ranked teams who would need an upset to make the sweet 16.

But yeah, they deserve criticism. You are right.

When is the last time St. John's won a tourney game? Was it when Clinton was president? Yeah, nova is the disappointment.



When nova started the new big east they wer an unranked team coming off a twenty loss season and a bubble year. You are wrong to say the last two years have been disappointing. They have turned it in and kicked a lot of butt. The tourney wins will come, just like jay has win plenty of them in the past.

[NovaBall]

Actually, speaking of Clinton, ever since he was elected St. John's has disappointed. One good run to the elite 8 in 1999 and a good team in 2000 that, gasp, lost in the second rd, and otherwise nothing.

St. John's is entering DePaul territory for futility at this point. 5 tourney wins in the last quarter century, three of them coming in one year, and the tourney bids have been few and far between since Clinton took office.

I lived in NYC for a decade. Johnnies made one tourney and didn't win a single game in the dance during an entire decade. Nobody went to the games. I worked at one penn plaza one yr and could always find a ticket to watch you lose. The one time you won against Louisville around the 2007 season thee were maybe two thousand fans in the seats, one being me. Pathetic.

But yeah, nova has only won two tourney games the past two years while garnering tons of national exposure and saving the league from Atlantic ten comparisons throughout the season, and nova is the disappointment.

I am going to watch coming to America now to remind me why you can't get any recruits.

At this point, outside of location and home court, is there anything St. John's offers that is better than st Bonnie's? Their tournament performance the last fifteen years are the same, as well as the NCAA sanctions. St Bonnie's is a little better academically, so you don't even have that going for you.

But at least you have a former player with no experience as coach in your sidelines. Chris Mullin is the golden boy coming home. Reminds me a lot of Eddie Jordan going back to Rutgers.

[thebigeXpress]

At this point, outside of location and home court, is there anything St. John's offers that is better than st Bonnie's? Their tournament performance the last fifteen years are the same, as well as the NCAA sanctions. St Bonnie's is a little better academically, so you don't even have that going for you.

SBU also offers degrees in Welding so there is something else they have on the Johnnies.

[MackNova]

Of course, Villanova fans are disappointed by the finishes. The seasons have been amazing from November til early March, but have ended in 2 straight disappointments. I understand other fans being disappointed to. If Villanova can go 41-5 against Big East teams, how can it go 0-2 in the tournament against real teams? It's frustrating as hell as a Nova fan, and I'm sure it's frustrating to other Big East fans that can't beat Villanova, then root for Villanova, then watch us lose early in the tournament.

The league won't get credit until it consistently produces top teams. So far, the league has produced 4 top-16 (top-4 seed caliber teams) - Villanova all 3 years and Xavier this year. I love that Xavier is this good - I hope they remain a top team this year, particularly considering they have always seemed to be a good team in the tournament.

As for the original post, I don't expect Villanova to lose on campus. We play Georgetown, Providence and St. John's at the Wells Fargo Center. Maybe PC or GTown surprises us, but it's unlikely. The one team I thought was good enough to beat us at home was Xavier and we saw what happened there. On the road against Xavier is a coinflip. Seton Hall and Providence are the only other teams I think can beat us at their place. If Villanova wins on Wednesday, I'm predicting 17-1.

[RedStormHoops]

NovaBall thanks for missing the point once again. Everyone's rooting for Villanova. So stop playing victim cause God forbid somebody threw some criticism at the way they ended their last few seasons.

You going on a rant about how bad St. John's has been the last 20 years just proved the point I was trying to make. No one is above criticism. Yea sure keep listing all the good things Villanova has done. I and everyone involved with the conference appreciates how good they've been.

But all I did was say I wanted them to go deep in the tournament. You can give me every stat you want about how dominant they've been, and every stat about how bad St. John's is. But my point will forever stand until they get over that hump. And I hope they do

My best friends are nova fans, maybe I came off as disrespectful, but I really am rooting for them. It's just this NovaBall poster, forgive me, but he's an asshole. Talks about kicking out/replacing teams in the conference but as soon as something negative about nova is mentioned he can't take the heat and freaks out

[GumbyDamnit!]

NovaBall thanks for missing the point once again. Everyone's rooting for Villanova. So stop playing victim cause God forbid somebody threw some criticism at the way they ended their last few seasons.

You going on a rant about how bad St. John's has been the last 20 years just proved the point I was trying to make. No one is above criticism. Yea sure keep listing all the good things Villanova has done. I and everyone involved with the conference appreciates how good they've been.

But all I did was say I wanted them to go deep in the tournament. You can give me every stat you want about how dominant they've been, and every stat about how bad St. John's is. But my point will forever stand until they get over that hump. And I hope they do

My best friends are nova fans, maybe I came off as disrespectful, but I really am rooting for them. It's just this NovaBall poster, forgive me, but he's an asshole. Talks about kicking out/replacing teams in the conference but as soon as something negative about nova is mentioned he can't take the heat and freaks out

ReStorm, this post is reasonable. I think what Nova fans take umbrage with is when fans of other teams in this league state that Nova has "let down the conference" or is an "embarrassment." My point is that if the conference as a whole wants to do better in March, then other programs should not wait for anyone else to do it for you.

An example of that is your previous statement in this thread:

They still need to win some damn tournament games for us to get the respect we want as a conference.

How about: we as a conference collectively need to do better in March.?.