DePaul is preferred over Dayton (it's official)

[MUBoxer]

I think Creighton is destined to be a bottom 1/3 program. This isn't any fault of their's, they just reside in the middle of a recruiting black hole. Can't do much about that, but it's not changing. It's at a distinct disadvantage to rest of the league because of it.

Was about to say the same thing about Butler. Chris Holtmann will jump ship soon for a better offer. Roosie and Dunham graduate after this year. Martin and Lewis won't be able to hide behind those seniors. Good luck competing with Indiana, Purdue, Notre Dame, Kentucky, Louisville, Ohio State, and Xavier for recruits with a fourth head coach in several years.

You can't just name schools near by and assume it's a recruiting competition. First Indiana has the most recruits per capita of any state so it's a very fertile recruiting ground for all that competition. Second those schools don't all go after the same recruits, for example Butler isn't nabbing any of those one and done super stars kentucky has become a mill for.

Now I'm not saying I think Creighton is going to fall to the basement but Nebraska doesn't turn out a lot of good basketball talent that often and if you try to recruit from the Cities of the other Big East schools you'll be facing an uphill battle as we all still think Nebraska is corn and more corn (I know Omaha is a real city but it's just the stereotype you'd be facing) I think if Creighton plays to it's strengths doing what it's always done rather than going after your typical city Big East recruit you'll be fine.

[Edrick]

Of course Creighton is going to have recruiting issues long term, what market are they going to recruit? Im sorry this is the truth, Omaha may as well be Antarctica for college basketball recruiting. This is something that probably shouldve been assessed (and probably was) when CU joined the league. This is what I call the Iowa Reality (another alma mater for me), you just cant escape having no one to recruit in your backyard, long-term.

Why is this even a point of contention? Look around the league and where everyone is situated. The only thing that keeps CU out of the bottom 1/3 is whatever incompetence pops up at the fringy programs in much better recruiting markets. (Seton Hall for example)

As an aside, as was said immediately above, Butler (and I'm not sure why that's relevant to the discussion) is in arguably the best recruiting market in the country --- certainly per capita, that's not close

[trephin]

Players can be found anywhere. It's up to the school's staffs to find them. UALR looked pretty good the other night with only 4 from in state. Every location will have it's detractors. Players will look for different things. It's up to the recruiters to sell their schools. It hasn't been Chicago and New York limiting DePaul and SJU.

I hate it when people call for schools to be thrown out; even indirectly as this thread does. This kind of stuff happened all the time over at CSNBBS before the split from the football schools. It serves no purpose but to be divisive. We don't need to be sitting in a circle singing Kumbaya but the concept of conference unity and support on a conference message board shouldn't be so novel.

[Rum_Ham]

Creighton has been doing fine recruiting. They had a five star recruit (according to scout) in Justin Patton and also got Khyri Thomas who looks like a stud. Even better they are both from Omaha. They also have made a killing on the transfer market with two top transfers in Maurice Watson and Cole Huff. Marcus Foster, who I think can be an all conference player next year, is sitting out for them as a transfer and was probably the best transfer on the market after last season. They already have a top 50 recruit signed for 2017 in Ty-shon Alexander. Creighton also just hired Preston Murphy from BC who is a solid recruiter from the east coast. Sure Nebraska isn't a great recruiting area but it hasn't stopped Creighton from recruiting well.

[Irishdawg]

I think Creighton is destined to be a bottom 1/3 program. This isn't any fault of their's, they just reside in the middle of a recruiting black hole. Can't do much about that, but it's not changing. It's at a distinct disadvantage to rest of the league because of it.

Was about to say the same thing about Butler. Chris Holtmann will jump ship soon for a better offer. Roosie and Dunham graduate after this year. Martin and Lewis won't be able to hide behind those seniors. Good luck competing with Indiana, Purdue, Notre Dame, Kentucky, Louisville, Ohio State, and Xavier for recruits with a fourth head coach in several years.

Well that's not a very nice thing to say.

Every school in the Big East has its challenges and advantages. I do believe the Xavier is better off than either Creighton or Butler because they have the funds and the fans that Creighton has, with the built-in recruiting region advantages that Butler also has. I'm not denying that Butler very well could lose Holtmann to a bigger and better job, but it seems you really have a bone to pick with the Bulldogs.

I also don't believe that Martin or Lewis is hiding behind Dunham and Jones. I'm not going to pretend that Martin doesn't benefit from them being on the floor, but he didn't more than double his PPG and nearly triple his rebounds per game because of Dunham and Jones. He did it because he worked his tail off this offseason. Much like I suspect Khyri Thomas has and will for Creighton in the future.

[DudeAnon]

This thread is absolutely stupid, DePaul will never get kicked and we all know it.

[notkirkcameron]

For me, this was an easy question.

DePaul is garbage. Like....wow. I knew they were bad, but I didn't know they were "Lose to Arkansas-Little Rock by 22 at home" bad until Saturday. But if DePaul could ever get their shit together....look out. Then they're the pre-eminent college basketball team in Chicago playing in a sparkling new arena in a recruiting hotbed. Their only local competition are a mid-table MVC newbie (Loyola), a mid-table Horizon League branch campus (UIC), "Chicago's Big Ten Team" that gets outdrawn by the visitors almost every home game (Northwestern), and a team that somehow is still a member of the WAC (Chicago State).

Meanwhile, Dayton went to the Elite 8 two years ago. They finished 2nd in the A-10 last year. They are AS GOOD AS THEY WILL EVER BE, and even at their peak they're still a nobody. Put more succinctly, Dayton's ceiling is DePaul's floor.

I'll take DePaul's potential (and comical dysfunction in the meantime) over Dayton's best-day irrelevance.

[DudeAnon]

For me, this was an easy question.

DePaul is garbage. Like....wow. I knew they were bad, but I didn't know they were "Lose to Arkansas-Little Rock by 22 at home" bad until Saturday. But if DePaul could ever get their shit together....look out. Then they're the pre-eminent college basketball team in Chicago playing in a sparkling new arena in a recruiting hotbed. Their only local competition are a mid-table MVC newbie (Loyola), a mid-table Horizon League branch campus (UIC), "Chicago's Big Ten Team" that gets outdrawn by the visitors almost every home game (Northwestern), and a team that somehow is still a member of the WAC (Chicago State).

Meanwhile, Dayton went to the Elite 8 two years ago. They finished 2nd in the A-10 last year. They are AS GOOD AS THEY WILL EVER BE, and even at their peak they're still a nobody. Put more succinctly, Dayton's ceiling is DePaul's floor.

I'll take DePaul's potential (and comical dysfunction in the meantime) over Dayton's best-day irrelevance.

Bingo. DePaul is akin to buying a stock while its low, Dayton has peaked and could very easily torpedo after Archie leaves. But lets say Dayton wins 4 straight National Championships. They still won't get in. I believe you need 80% approval from the BE presidents to get in. Butler and X will say no right off the bat. That means there would only need to be 1 more school to vote no, and I can think of a myriad of reasons for each school.

Also, go over to UDPride and check out what they think of the Big East NovaBall. Let me summarize it for you:

1) The Big Least
2) Dayton has done better than the entire BE in March
3) Kris Dunn sucks

[NovaBall]

For me, this was an easy question.

DePaul is garbage. Like....wow. I knew they were bad, but I didn't know they were "Lose to Arkansas-Little Rock by 22 at home" bad until Saturday. But if DePaul could ever get their shit together....look out. Then they're the pre-eminent college basketball team in Chicago playing in a sparkling new arena in a recruiting hotbed. Their only local competition are a mid-table MVC newbie (Loyola), a mid-table Horizon League branch campus (UIC), "Chicago's Big Ten Team" that gets outdrawn by the visitors almost every home game (Northwestern), and a team that somehow is still a member of the WAC (Chicago State).

Meanwhile, Dayton went to the Elite 8 two years ago. They finished 2nd in the A-10 last year. They are AS GOOD AS THEY WILL EVER BE, and even at their peak they're still a nobody. Put more succinctly, Dayton's ceiling is DePaul's floor.

I'll take DePaul's potential (and comical dysfunction in the meantime) over Dayton's best-day irrelevance.

Good post

The results are telling too. For as bad as DePaul is, almost everyone prefers them over Dayton.

[ecasadoSBU]

This shouldn't even be a question.

Ofcourse DePaul is the team to have. The potential is there. With DePaul winning this conference would enjoy more benefits than having Dayton at their best. It's simple. DePaul has the potential of being Chicago's team. Obviously, tapping that potential has proved more difficult than we would like it to be. But I stand behind DePaul all the way.

The program stinks right now. But they committed to a new city arena which will allow them to play in actual Chicago and not the distant Rosemont. Now it's time to make some changes at the administration and coaching level.