BE Games Mon 11/16 - 2g - Umbc-SJU, IUPUI-Marquette...

[NJRedman]

Here's the thing with St John's.
If they go 6-12 in conference play to finish 8th.....(which is the record that the 8th place team has gotten both years)
they would need to go 11-2 OOC to finish 17-14 which would be NIT bubble...

Sorry but 16-15 just doesn't get teams in the NIT any more.

So you're saying that if the johnnies go 11-2 and finish conference play at 6-12 they could go to the NIT? Sounds good to me.

How about if they go 10-3 and conference play at 6-12, but pick up two wins at MSG in March? Would you allow them in the tourney with that resume?


Oh yeah, doesn't the nit play at MSG? Maybe if the johnnies are on the nit bubble they get a little benefit of the doubt?

The funny thing too is that the only "tough" games on our schedule are Vandy and Cuse. The rest is Fordham, NJIT, St Francis and Incarnate World. Wake and UCLA at Maui would be great for us. We could lose to one of them or we could beat both of them. Our team is a big ? right now, but not just in a negative like Stevereno wants to make it seem.

[stever20]

just looking last year's NIT-
there were 10 lower tier auto spots. 2 others were auto, but they were 3 seeds so would have gotten in regardless....
so 22 spots....

of the 22, only 2 didn't win 19 games.
Arizona St was 17-15, but was 9-9 in conference play
Alabama was 18-14, 8-10 in conference play

So even St John's at 18-15 with 11-2 and 6-12 in conference, then winning 1 game in the BET would be precarious at best.

2014 NIT you had 10 lower tier auto spots. only 2 17 win teams made the tourney- Georgetown and WVU. 8-10 and 9-9 respectively in conference play.

[Dew]

Don't sleep on NJIT.

[stever20]

With all due respect to Butler's runs those were because of their coach. Yes Hayward and Mac were amazing players but no Stevens no run.

Literally the year before Stevens was named Butler's head coach, they had a head coach named National COY -- http://www.nabc.org/sports/m-baskbl/spe ... 07aah.html

That's just silly. There's a lot of coaches that can take a preseason Top 10 team like Butler was in 2010 to a Final Four. 2011 was just weirdness, that happens sometimes. Weirdness isn't really linked to a coach either, probably more linked with Shelvin Mack becoming unstoppable for a few weeks (like the Pittsburgh Sweet 16 game)

wasn't the Pitt game round of 32 if memory serves me right?

[Jet915]

If SJU can beat Rutgers and Wake Forest, I think that would be a coup.

[stever20]

If SJU can beat Rutgers and Wake Forest, I think that would be a coup.

I think the thing that will be interesting is how St John's in that scenario plays vs Wake Forest, after taking loss to Vanderbilt.

[MUBoxer]

With all due respect to Butler's runs those were because of their coach. Yes Hayward and Mac were amazing players but no Stevens no run.

Literally the year before Stevens was named Butler's head coach, they had a head coach named National COY -- http://www.nabc.org/sports/m-baskbl/spe ... 07aah.html

That's just silly. There's a lot of coaches that can take a preseason Top 10 team like Butler was in 2010 to a Final Four. 2011 was just weirdness, that happens sometimes. Weirdness isn't really linked to a coach either, probably more linked with Shelvin Mack becoming unstoppable for a few weeks (like the Pittsburgh Sweet 16 game)

Ok I don't know what you're trying to say by bring Licklitter into this but once again no Licklitter no Sweet 16.

Not to be nitpicky but they weren't preseason top 10 they were number 11. They actually didn't crack the top 10 the whole year. Here's the week by week. And for the record even if you were top 10 and all four final four teams came from the top 10 the odds are still that you don't get there as 6 of those top 10 teams don't make the final four. I stand by my point that no Stevens no finals.

http://collegepollarchive.com/mbasketba ... ktjFXtGSck

[NJRedman]

With all due respect to Butler's runs those were because of their coach. Yes Hayward and Mac were amazing players but no Stevens no run.

Literally the year before Stevens was named Butler's head coach, they had a head coach named National COY -- http://www.nabc.org/sports/m-baskbl/spe ... 07aah.html

That's just silly. There's a lot of coaches that can take a preseason Top 10 team like Butler was in 2010 to a Final Four. 2011 was just weirdness, that happens sometimes. Weirdness isn't really linked to a coach either, probably more linked with Shelvin Mack becoming unstoppable for a few weeks (like the Pittsburgh Sweet 16 game)

Ok I don't know what you're trying to say by bring Licklitter into this but once again no Licklitter no Sweet 16.

Not to be nitpicky but they weren't preseason top 10 they were number 11. They actually didn't crack the top 10 the whole year. Here's the week by week. And for the record even if you were top 10 and all four final four teams came from the top 10 the odds are still that you don't get there as 6 of those top 10 teams don't make the final four. I stand by my point that no Stevens no finals.

http://collegepollarchive.com/mbasketba ... ktjFXtGSck

Okay and no Coach K no championships at Duke.

[MUBoxer]

Okay and no Coach K no championships at Duke.

I'd agree with that. They likely would still be an elite program as they had like 4 or 5 Final fours before coach K but I'd agree they wouldn't be where they are at today. Just like Marquette wouldn't be Marquette without Al Mcguire, Georgetown without John Thompson Depaul without Meyer, SJU without Rollie, etc etc.

[Edrick]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... asontype/2

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I don't know where this circular logic is going but I don't know how it's possible to ever reach the conclusion that something wouldn't have happened with one person, if it did both before and after --- but whatev.