AP poll (preseason)

[FormulaX]

but of the top 8 players lost only 3. Also bring in a top 25 player in Brunson. So Nova has a lot coming back- lets just say way more than most teams do.

If Nova had made the elite 8 or higher- do you really think they would be as low as they are? No way in hell. They'd be top 6-7 easily. you look at the 10 teams ahead of them- only Maryland, Kansas, Virginia, and Iowa St failed to make the sweet 16. The 3 teams right ahead of Nova- no way in hell Nova should be behind them- but the tourney performance dictated it- Oklahoma, Gonzaga, and Wichita St.

"WAY more than most teams." Let's look at this misstatement as well.

1). UNC - returns 8 of top 9 players and added 2 recruits
2). UK is UK; blue blood; who's who of H.S. AA's
3). MD - only lost Wells and brought in a Top 10 player in Stone and two solid transfers
4). KU is KU; blue blood; brought in a great class; lose Alexander and Oubre & replace with Diallo and Bragg
5). Duke is Duke; blue blood; tremendous recruiting class and Coach K
6). UVA - return 6 of top 8 and earned this ranking by only losing twice in the ACC last year, not by losing in the R32 (which should have pushed them down the rankings per your theory)
7). ISU - return top 3 players including a 1st team preseason AA ad POY candidate in Niang; but also lost in the R32. Hmm.... According to you that should have cost them a few spots.
8). Oklahoma - return a preseason AA and POY candidate in Held; return 4 of their 5 starters whom each averaged over 30 min's / game
9). Gonzaga - bring back 7 of top 9 players including AA candidate Wiltjer
10). Wich State - bring back their All-American backcourt who are BOTH AA and POY candidates
11). Nova - Lost their best player who is now on an NBA roster + two other starters, one a former McD AA who started for 4 years in the program.

Looking at that list of teams ahead of them in the rankings how can you justify the "Nova has way more coming back than other teams" comment? Again just not even close to accurate.

Look, rankings are rankings--they are subjective and people can have a variety of reasons to ranks teams where they did. But for a team that lost 60% of its starting lineup to get voted in at #11 is not the indictment on tourney performance that you are making it out to be--especially when other teams who fared the same are ranked very highly.

Honestly Stever everything to you is trying to paint the BE glass as half empty at every turn and I simply am never going to just let those comments slide--especially when they have zero basis in fact. And then when proven wrong it is your MO to just slink back into the shadows until your next opportunity to play your little game.

Sort of like when you make the following declarative statements:
"The BE is (or will) struggle with recruiting." Wrong.
"The AAC will get 5 bids (last year)." Wrong.
"The Northeast is not the best area of the country for HS recruiting any longer." Wrong
"Nova is ONLY at 11 because of their poor March performance." Wrong.

Anything else or are we about done here?

Nice work! I've just been ignoring him in the past. But, we SHOULD all be taking turns thwarting his venomous biased comments. There SOMETIMES is even good discussion to be had, but many of us are to annoyed or embarrassed to comment and make it a worthy thread.

[stever20]

So am I the only one saying that the BE isn't getting respect in the polls? HELL NO. Hoyahooligan just a few posts ago said the BE getting no respect. Is he biased?

If we were really viewed as the #2 conference, wouldn't we have more than 2 teams in the top 25, and at least 1 team in the top 10? If the Big East is going so great, why absolutely no respect in the polls? And just stop with the Nova is getting respect in the polls- because that is absolute GARBAGE. No way a team with what Nova has coming back (and with Brunson who may be a freshmen of the year)- should be #11. They wouldn't be if they had any semblance of tourney success. If we took an anonymous poll- Folks would agree with me a whole hell of a lot more than Gumby.

The problem on here is folks are scared to death to agree with me because of bullies on here- that they would shout them down. When I posted a few months ago under a different name- there was far more agreement with me than disagreement. Sorry- but that's a fact. That's pathetic.

[marquette]

Poor, poor persecuted stever. Such a nice guy, never hear a bad word from him, always admits when he's wrong, but everybody just keeps picking on him for no reason. It's ok buddy, once your mom gets here we can sort this whole bullying business out. Here's a lollipop while we wait. ==O

[Hoya Hoya Hoya]

So am I the only one saying that the BE isn't getting respect in the polls? HELL NO. Hoyahooligan just a few posts ago said the BE getting no respect. Is he biased?

If we were really viewed as the #2 conference, wouldn't we have more than 2 teams in the top 25, and at least 1 team in the top 10? If the Big East is going so great, why absolutely no respect in the polls? And just stop with the Nova is getting respect in the polls- because that is absolute GARBAGE. No way a team with what Nova has coming back (and with Brunson who may be a freshmen of the year)- should be #11. They wouldn't be if they had any semblance of tourney success. If we took an anonymous poll- Folks would agree with me a whole hell of a lot more than Gumby.

The problem on here is folks are scared to death to agree with me because of bullies on here- that they would shout them down. When I posted a few months ago under a different name- there was far more agreement with me than disagreement. Sorry- but that's a fact. That's pathetic.

So why don't you leave if it's that bad?

Edit: Also there is no way in f--- you are actually a Georgetown fan

[stever20]

So am I the only one saying that the BE isn't getting respect in the polls? HELL NO. Hoyahooligan just a few posts ago said the BE getting no respect. Is he biased?

If we were really viewed as the #2 conference, wouldn't we have more than 2 teams in the top 25, and at least 1 team in the top 10? If the Big East is going so great, why absolutely no respect in the polls? And just stop with the Nova is getting respect in the polls- because that is absolute GARBAGE. No way a team with what Nova has coming back (and with Brunson who may be a freshmen of the year)- should be #11. They wouldn't be if they had any semblance of tourney success. If we took an anonymous poll- Folks would agree with me a whole hell of a lot more than Gumby.

The problem on here is folks are scared to death to agree with me because of bullies on here- that they would shout them down. When I posted a few months ago under a different name- there was far more agreement with me than disagreement. Sorry- but that's a fact. That's pathetic.

So why don't you leave if it's that bad?

Because I'm a Big East fan. Why should I have to leave?

[GumbyDamnit!]

So am I the only one saying that the BE isn't getting respect in the polls? HELL NO. Hoyahooligan just a few posts ago said the BE getting no respect. Is he biased?

If we were really viewed as the #2 conference, wouldn't we have more than 2 teams in the top 25, and at least 1 team in the top 10? If the Big East is going so great, why absolutely no respect in the polls? And just stop with the Nova is getting respect in the polls- because that is absolute GARBAGE. No way a team with what Nova has coming back (and with Brunson who may be a freshmen of the year)- should be #11. They wouldn't be if they had any semblance of tourney success. If we took an anonymous poll- Folks would agree with me a whole hell of a lot more than Gumby.

The problem on here is folks are scared to death to agree with me because of bullies on here- that they would shout them down. When I posted a few months ago under a different name- there was far more agreement with me than disagreement. Sorry- but that's a fact. That's pathetic.

First of all please stop using "WE" when referring to the BE. You are not WE.

Secondly, let's stay on topic here Stever. Nowhere did I even comment on the rest of the BE and the collective rankings. Those are two separate points--the one I responded to was about Nova "not getting respect." Let's not move the argument as you are prone to do.

You, yourself, used the phrase: "with what Nova has coming back." I simply alerted you to the fact that Nova lost it's best player to the NBA, lost another 4 year do-everything-former-McD's AA-starter and their starting 2G. Nova lost their 1st, 4th and 5th leading scorers and 3 of the top 4 in terms of mins/game. Why do you casually dismiss that? Don't you think that may have affected where they were ranked? Maybe I'm off base but that sure sounds like they lost a fair amount of their team. In fact using the criteria that you brought up does not hold water against the teams ranked ahead of them as I clearly pointed out. So what do you do next? You compare what they lost to Duke, UK and KU. Are you freaking kidding me? That's your argument now?

See, this is what you do. First you say that the reason they are not higher in the rankings is because of their inability to go deeper in the tourney last year. When I point out that there are 5 teams in the top 11 who also did not make the S16, that basically pokes huge holes in your premise. Then you move on to the next possible reason and
say that Nova was disrespected because they have more coming back than the other teams around them. I point out that actually that is not at all factual and I provide facts to back up my statement. Realizing that you are starting to look foolish again you bring up Duke, UK & KU--the three biggest blue bloods who regularly turn over their rosters with the cream of the recruiting crop. Stever, you are really making yourself look bad.

Then lastly in typical Stever fashion you point to 2 teams--Wisc and ND--that you feel are ranked too high and attribute that to their March performance. Yet you ignore the other 4 teams ranked ahead of Nova who also lost in the R32. That makes zero sense. If anything those two programs are receiving what Nova also received in this ranking: the benefit of the doubt because they have been a solid program for a long time and each has a quality coach with a very good track record.

Do your polls and I really don't care who sides with you or sides with me. I'm not on here for a popularity contest. I'm here to have intelligent conversation about the team and conference that I love to root for. Forgive me if you think that I am a bully--that is not my intent. I just refuse to allow you to make your snide little digs without them being challenged. It's a family thing. We can talk bad about members of the family but God help the man outside of the family who talks bad about anyone in it.

[marquette]

So am I the only one saying that the BE isn't getting respect in the polls? HELL NO. Hoyahooligan just a few posts ago said the BE getting no respect. Is he biased?

If we were really viewed as the #2 conference, wouldn't we have more than 2 teams in the top 25, and at least 1 team in the top 10? If the Big East is going so great, why absolutely no respect in the polls? And just stop with the Nova is getting respect in the polls- because that is absolute GARBAGE. No way a team with what Nova has coming back (and with Brunson who may be a freshmen of the year)- should be #11. They wouldn't be if they had any semblance of tourney success. If we took an anonymous poll- Folks would agree with me a whole hell of a lot more than Gumby.

The problem on here is folks are scared to death to agree with me because of bullies on here- that they would shout them down. When I posted a few months ago under a different name- there was far more agreement with me than disagreement. Sorry- but that's a fact. That's pathetic.

So why don't you leave if it's that bad?

Edit: Also there is no way in f--- you are actually a Georgetown fan

Dude has to kill time somehow. He's currently posting on both this and the realignment board where he has an additional 21,000 posts. They keep statistics there for time online, 9 months 6 days 17 hours. On that forum alone, that's solely time online. Clearly so bored that a little bullying is fine, just so long as someone is paying attention to him.

[marquette]

So am I the only one saying that the BE isn't getting respect in the polls? HELL NO. Hoyahooligan just a few posts ago said the BE getting no respect. Is he biased?

If we were really viewed as the #2 conference, wouldn't we have more than 2 teams in the top 25, and at least 1 team in the top 10? If the Big East is going so great, why absolutely no respect in the polls? And just stop with the Nova is getting respect in the polls- because that is absolute GARBAGE. No way a team with what Nova has coming back (and with Brunson who may be a freshmen of the year)- should be #11. They wouldn't be if they had any semblance of tourney success. If we took an anonymous poll- Folks would agree with me a whole hell of a lot more than Gumby.

The problem on here is folks are scared to death to agree with me because of bullies on here- that they would shout them down. When I posted a few months ago under a different name- there was far more agreement with me than disagreement. Sorry- but that's a fact. That's pathetic.

First of all please stop using "WE" when referring to the BE. You are not WE.

Secondly, let's stay on topic here Stever. Nowhere did I even comment on the rest of the BE and the collective rankings. Those are two separate points--the one I responded to was about Nova "not getting respect." Let's not move the argument as you are prone to do.

You, yourself, used the phrase: "with what Nova has coming back." I simply alerted you to the fact that Nova lost it's best player to the NBA, lost another 4 year do-everything-former-McD's AA-starter and their starting 2G. Nova lost their 1st, 4th and 5th leading scorers and 3 of the top 4 in terms of mins/game. Why do you casually dismiss that? Don't you think that may have affected where they were ranked? Maybe I'm off base but that sure sounds like they lost a fair amount of their team. In fact using the criteria that you brought up does not hold water against the teams ranked ahead of them as I clearly pointed out. So what do you do next? You compare what they lost to Duke, UK and KU. Are you freaking kidding me? That's your argument now?

See, this is what you do. First you say that the reason they are not higher in the rankings is because of their inability to go deeper in the tourney last year. When I point out that there are 5 teams in the top 11 who also did not make the S16, that basically pokes huge holes in your premise. Then you move on to the next possible reason and
say that Nova was disrespected because they have more coming back than the other teams around them. I point out that actually that is not at all factual and I provide facts to back up my statement. Realizing that you are starting to look foolish again you bring up Duke, UK & KU--the three biggest blue bloods who regularly turn over their rosters with the cream of the recruiting crop. Stever, you are really making yourself look bad.

Then lastly in typical Stever fashion you point to 2 teams--Wisc and ND--that you feel are ranked too high and attribute that to their March performance. Yet you ignore the other 4 teams ranked ahead of Nova who also lost in the R32. That makes zero sense. If anything those two programs are receiving what Nova also received in this ranking: the benefit of the doubt because they have been a solid program for a long time and each has a quality coach with a very good track record.

Do your polls and I really don't care who sides with you or sides with me. I'm not on here for a popularity contest. I'm here to have intelligent conversation about the team and conference that I love to root for. Forgive me if you think that I am a bully--that is not my intent. I just refuse to allow you to make your snide little digs without them being challenged. It's a family thing. We can talk bad about members of the family but God help the man outside of the family who talks bad about anyone in it.

I gave up trying to have a reasonable discussion with stever quite some time ago. He will never change his tune no matter how often he is proven wrong.

[stever20]

what you are saying about Nova would make more sense- if it was a team like a PC a few years ago where the bench didn't play much. Nova loses 3 guys that none of played more than 70% of the teams minutes- also 2 of the 3 were the 2 worst offensive players that played much last year for Nova(by Ken Pom).... Still have 5 of the top 8 guys(all of whom played at least 36% of the minutes last year)- including the Big East co-player of the year last year. And Brunson coming in. Sorry- but in this day and age- that's a LOT coming back. I don't know for sure- but I think that would be in the top 25 in terms of what's coming back this year pretty easily. Teams just don't bring back as much as you think IMO

Also- you failed to answer my question. Do you really think you would be only #11 if you had gone further in the tourney? I think you're crazy if you think that.

Sorry but for a team that is 62-8 last 2 years, and has as much coming back as they have, in my mind, they should be MUCH higher than 11. I think if you had gone further in the tourney, you'd be like in the top 6-7 quite frankly right now. To act like the tourney has no bearing on the next years poll is a complete joke.

[stever20]

I think one thing to see is the impact of the prior year in the next years AP Poll:
2013-14 we had a brutal season- with 4 tourney teams(with 1 only in due to winning the BET and a 2nd in the PIG). we only get 2 teams with votes even to start the next season. with only 1 team in the actual top 25...
2014-15 we have a much better season- with 6 tourney teams. we get 2 teams in the poll, and then 3 more getting votes.

Even last year, we were much better in the tourney, and it showed in the polls preseason.