Can we agree on Xavier, Butler, and Creighton

[gmoser1210]

One thing people need to consider is basketball may be at the forefront of all of this, but it's not 100% of it. The AD's and Presidents at each school have a lot to weigh and a lot to consider. For example lacrosse. It may not be big across the country, but it's relevant in the Big East. The C7 currently have 5 lacrosse schools. They need 6 to retain an automatic qualifier. Xavier, Butler, SLU, Creighton, and VCU don't have lacrosse, but you know who does? Richmond.

Richmond fits as a like-minded institution. A small, historic, private school with strong academics. And they still offer up a solid basketball program. VCU is an excellent, and better, basketball program... But if the C7 call on the Richmond market, it will be University of Richmond, not VCU.

It's 95% basketball, but it's that last 5% that may end up swaying some of the decisions. Just something to consider."

I'm operating under the assumption that Butler and Xavier are in. With those nine schools, there are plenty of teams (at least six) to sponsor competition in baseball, men's and women's basketball, men's and women's cross country, men's golf, men's and women's soccer, softball, women's swimming, men's and women's tennis, men's and women's track, and women's volleyball.

That leaves three schools who offer field hockey, three who offer FCS football, five who offer women's golf, five who offer men's lacrosse, three who offer women's lacrosse, two who offer women's crew/rowing, and five who offer men's swimming. All other sports are offered only by one school (St. John's offers M/W Fencing, Providence offers M/W Ice Hockey, Georgetown offers men's crew/rowing and coed sailing, and Villanova offers women's water polo).

Assuming we need six teams to offer a sport at the conference level:
The following schools offer field hockey (need three to offer): Richmond, Saint Louis, and VCU
The following schools offer women's golf (need one to offer): Creighton, Dayton, and Richmond
The following schools offer men's lacrosse (need one to offer): Richmond
The following schools offer men's swimming (need one to offer): Saint Louis
The following schools offer FCS football (need three to offer): Dayton and Richmond
The following schools offer women's lacrosse (need three to offer): Richmond
The following schools offer women's crew/rowing (need four to offer): Creighton and Dayton

I think it's safe to write off football, women's lacrosse, and women's crew.

Richmond really does seem to make a lot of sense when looking at the bigger picture. If you add Richmond, SLU, and VCU, you add field hockey, women's golf, and men's lacrosse. On the other hand, if the league starts off with only ten members, adding Richmond still gives you women's golf and men's lacrosse or only adding SLU would give you men's swimming. It hasn't been discussed and doesn't make the most basketball sense, but it's interesting to think about.

[yorost]

I can be ok with Richmond. I can be ok with VCU. I would be disappointed greatly to see Richmond and VCU. Adding two teams from a 1.2 million metro? In a state with two power conference universities? If we're going to have a doubled up city beyond the New York metro at least let it be something like Philadelphia.

I do think lacrosse is important to sponsor. It's a great sport to watch and has been gaining steam in recent years. That;s a nice plus for Richmond, and Detroit has been mentioned for that, too. Hard to see Detroit unless they really wanted that metro, but Richmond I can see.

[jkc_dawgs]

You would have enough for a FCS football conference if you leave SLU or Creighton in the dust and add Richmond. I don't see a football conference happening though because if we take Richmond, I feel like the first one to go would be Dayton, and they are one of the 6 schools that has football.

[yorost]

Is anyone looking at adding any of these sports? Especially some of the additions might have a little more money to start sponsoring new sports. I would expect that as a conference they would be looking at sports they can reasonably have soon almost as much as sports they can have immediately. Say if DePaul committed to adding lacrosse as soon as possible, it wouldn't be so bad to not add a lacrosse school.

[FlyerFan]

Assuming we need six teams to offer a sport at the conference level:
The following schools offer field hockey (need three to offer): Richmond, Saint Louis, and VCU
The following schools offer women's golf (need one to offer): Creighton, Dayton, and Richmond
The following schools offer men's lacrosse (need one to offer): Richmond
The following schools offer men's swimming (need one to offer): Saint Louis
The following schools offer FCS football (need three to offer): Dayton and Richmond
The following schools offer women's lacrosse (need three to offer): Richmond
The following schools offer women's crew/rowing (need four to offer): Creighton and Dayton

I think it's safe to write off football, women's lacrosse, and women's crew.

Football, women's lacrosse and women's crew are safe to write off but field hockey and men's swimming are sacrosanct? Why, because SLU has those sports but doesn't have the others?

Look, I find it hard to believe that any of these fringe sports is going to have that big of an impact. I'm sure if that was the deciding factor, schools that want to be admitted could be convinced to start up programs in those sports. More likely, however, is that the conference just doesn't sponsor some of these fringe sports and the schools that wish to participate just become affiliate members of another conference for that particular sport. This happens all over already, with football, soccer and hockey being prime examples.

[SixTwentySix]

You would have enough for a FCS football conference if you leave SLU or Creighton in the dust and add Richmond. I don't see a football conference happening though because if we take Richmond, I feel like the first one to go would be Dayton, and they are one of the 6 schools that has football.

Nova and Richmond already play FCS together and have athletic ties, probably why Nova is rumored to be pulling for them along with Georgetown. I doubt any of these schools will realign what little football they have and that it's the last sport being considered.

Is anyone looking at adding any of these sports? Especially some of the additions might have a little more money to start sponsoring new sports. I would expect that as a conference they would be looking at sports they can reasonably have soon almost as much as sports they can have immediately. Say if DePaul committed to adding lacrosse as soon as possible, it wouldn't be so bad to not add a lacrosse school.

I agree that any of the schools they pick up can move up to DI lacrosse and fill the role, it's always a possibility and actually ideal. Regardless, there is no way they pass on getting a 6th team and losing their automatic bid to the tournament, they would never sacrifice that. There is a 100% chance these school will add a 6th lacrosse team. Which means if none of the added teams are willing to upgrade to DI lacrosse, this pretty much makes Richmond a lock. Well either them or Holy Cross, but I mean come on.

The point of my original post was that there are other factors, albeit small ones, going into this that need to be considered, not just great basketball. And schools that have little to offer with the exception of a great basketball program (*cough* VCU) will most likely be passed on.

[The Voice of Reason]

Someone at one of the C7 schools needs to explain to me the fascination with Creighton. I have followed the Missouri Valley Conference for years. The one thing that is a constant in Valley is the consistent turnover at the top.

There have been years, many of them, when Southern Illinois was the powerhouse team in the Valley (see the 90's). Missouri State was the top team for periods of time (won league in 05-06 & 04-05). Heck, even Bradley, Drake (won league in 07-08 & 06-07), and Northern Iowa have led the conference during certain years. Recently, Wichita State has had a lot of success. Currently, Creighton is the flavor of the month.

Before I get to my question of the C7 supporters, here are some statistics on Creighton. Between the 03-04 season and the 10-11 season (8 seasons) Creighton only finished in the top two teams in the Missouri Valley one time. I repeat, ONE TIME. This was in 08-09 when they won the league. During this time Wichita State won the league 3 times, Drake twice, and Missouri State twice. Bradley came in second 3 times, Southern Illinois twice, Missouri State once, Illinois State once, and Northern Iowa once.

Here are my questions to C7 schools: What if you were picking schools back when Southern Illinois was at the top of the Missouri Valley and consistently ranked in the top 25? Would you be happy being partnered with that school now? What if you had been choosing new schools to conference with at the end of the, let's say, 07-08 season and you grabbed repeat Missouri Valley Conference champion Drake? Would you be glad that you now had Drake in your conference? Would you be happy if you had Missouri State, or Northern Iowa, or Bradley, or Wichita State?

You should all carefully consider the history of the Missouri Valley before pulling a team into your new conference. In a few years you will probably have what Southern Illinois (among other examples as cited above) is doing now.

[Dew]

Voice- 10 years ago you wouldn't have invited butler or VCU either. Creighton was 6th in the country in attendance last year and has a top 10 team at the moment. Their trendline is up. Add in the religious component and strong academic background and they fit well.

[CaseyGarrisonforPrez]

Voice- 10 years ago you wouldn't have invited butler or VCU either. Creighton was 6th in the country in attendance last year and has a top 10 team at the moment. Their trendline is up. Add in the religious component and strong academic background and they fit well.

They are trending up in the immediate future. Once Doug is gone it is hard to say. It is worth noting that their baseball program was just picked 7th in the MVC preseason poll and it is a top heavy league. A lot of their Olympic sports outside of men's soccer struggle much of the time. They have good academics and are Jesuit or whatever so that probably helps their appeal. The whole package however...is merely competent or adequate. They aren't a home run. They get on base via catcher's interference. But that's all you need in conference realignment sometimes so more power to them.

[Jet915]

Casey,
I'm sorry, I hate hearing this talk about Creighton being all about Doug McDermott. 8 NCAAs in the last 15 years and we are sure to make it this year as well. If you do the math, McDermott has only been here 3 years. So not only do we make it to the NCAAs over 50% of the time over the last 15 years (not a bad sample size), we boast top 10 attendance. 15K over the last decade, 17K this year. 12,000+ season ticket holders, 4 million dollars earned a year just from the "Jaybackers" club. Basketball success is there, support is there. 18,111 fans last game for our "Pink Out"


As for academics? #1 by US News and World Report for midwest universities with Doctoral programs in Medicine, Dentistry, Pharmacy, Law, OT/PT, Philosophy and a Business School (equates to rich alumni).

Olympic Sports and facilities? How about...

1.  Soccer is our most successful sport.  I think we've made the NCAAs like 19 out of the last 20 years.  Only college team to have someone drafted by the MLS every year and we've made two straight College Cup's (final four).  We also play at one of the best venues for college soccer, Morrison Stadium.


2.  Women's basketball is on an upswing as well.  We made the NCAAs last year and almost upset St John's.  This year, we were picked to win the MVC and having a very successful season so far.

3.  Women's volleyball is also doing really well.  Made the NCAAs last year and made them again this year.  Both times winning a game.  Women's basketball and volleyball play at a brand new arena specifically for these sports (DJ Sokol Arena).


4.  Men's baseball has also made the last two NCAAs and have won games in the tournament.  We also play at the home of the College World Series (TD Ameritrade Park).


5.  Lastly, it was announced that there will be a brand new Basketball Practice Facility built that will be completed in 2014.


Oh yeah, we are a private Jesuit school that also look like the other schools. That is why Creighton is a good fit for the BE7.