Xavier AD says expanding to 12 schools within 5 years

[TheHall]

No one in their right mind can deny that fb schools behaved liked addicts trying to flee to a P5 conference & I hated that crap...but that's ancient news now. None of that is relevant to ensuring this BE/Fox venture is successful and being labeled a mid-major may be the biggest threat to that. I think people dont realize that when this deal went down Butler w/Stevens was a damn big part of the marketing plan...oops! Butler was an unquestioned #8/9...would they have been if Stevens got the celts job earlier? My point isn't to say Butler won't still become a crown jewel for the BE, just saying to all those advocating for the A-10 teams, how many question mark teams can this league afford to have at one time?

Those living in the past need to see how the B12 (Texas sweetheart deal), Mountain West (BSU sweetheart deal), the AAC (buying off Uconn,USF & Cincy) & even the ACC (ND sweetheart deal) had to hold there nose to ensure a decent amount of stability. Is the BE above doing the same?

I agree with your general line of thinking - especially with your point that the biggest threat to the Big East is the possibility of becoming a mid major like the A10. They MUST make it a priority to only bring in programs that have demonstrated that they can compete at the highest level. The 3 available programs who have demonstrated that are Gonzaga, BYU, and VCU. Take your pick.

IMO, a program is bigger than a coach. Butler is a "program", not just the creation of Stevens. He simply built on the foundation that the coaches before him had established. They were a good program before he got there and they will continue to be a good program now that he's gone. For that reason I have no concerns about them and continue to believe that they are a great addition even with his departure.

There is no Ned for the Big East to buy off anyone. They have good choices available without that.

My main point is that for those that seem to be jilted with fb schools I wonder if they appreciate that the BE w/out fb has never existed. The BE we knew & loved has always had fb schools. The Big East's original "hook" was that it WAS a hybrid model & that formula never changed...until now. The issue was always the balance of power which every conference experiences. The last version of the BE failed b/c of the leadership not the hybrid model. The BE model has proven it's value many times over, specific school presidents & conference officials were to blame for the implosion. But now we have a new leadership team, new media partner, and a new college sports landscape. This new non-fb BE experiment may prove successful or may go become comparable to the A-10. If the latter happens why wouldn't FOX and the BE consider going back to some form of its traditional hybrid model if things don't go as planned early on?

Fox will decide whether anyone needs to be bought off, there are paying the bills after all.

[TheHall]

What will happen to all of those schools at the kid table when the Power 5 FB conferences eventually settle in? How much longer will state funded schools be able to get away with FB programs that lose millions of dollars each year--at the expense of the state taxpayer subsidies (see: Temple, Uconn as relevant examples). I can speak for my home state of PA where the governor is cutting millions from the state budget for education. And yet Temple U., a school that relies on state funds to keep its doors open, is losing millions upon millions each year so their FB program can aspire to be big time. So in their attempts to make the Chico's Bail Bonds Dadelion Bowl--which ends up costing the school more money to send their teams to than they actually make--they keep throwing money down the drain. At what point is enough, enough and the state starts questioning, and Temple has to cut back on their program or abandon it altogether?...

This is my point exactly. After this round of musical chairs the schools left standing (big budgets, not enough revenue long term) are the ones who have to get creative now. These schools may not be able to just wait for a life line. But the BE is in a good position to watch/wait to see what these schools do now that the P5 have consolidated. If not then why haven't Gonzaga, SLU, etc been chosen yet, is one more tourny bid going to make the difference in the choice?

I believe one of the reasons FOX overpaid by so much for the BE is b/c they believed in it's growth potential and the BE's biggest growth will come from its next round of expansion. The BE is now in a position of strength which it wasn't a year ago, which opens the door to new opportunities other than the ones discussed a year ago too.

[aughnanure]

Not good news to be out there for VCU.

http://gmuhoops.co/2013/09/09/george-ma ... asketball/

I'd be interested to see how profitable BE teams are but I doubt that info is public.

Anyway that is not a very good stat for VCU, especially because I'm assuming state funding is limited in VA just like everywhere else.

C7 Schools spent like 6 to 10 million per year. Georgetown and Marquette ~10, everyone else 6 or 7. All accounted that they broke even or made a little profit, except Marquette that cleared over $4M with their attendance. That was on ~$1.5M old TV rev. Now TV rev will be $4 to $5M per school. Big East programs should be in very good shape with the FOX deal.

I think that's even being conservative. I think most all make money, just a lot of it gets lost in the accounting and going to support other programs. This isn't football where only like 10% turn a profit.

That being said, I can't believe this is true for VCU, probably a little of accounting mechanics and a little bit of truth that they're fan support/money is not that powerful yet.

[marquette]

That's all well and good, but if the presidents want to keep cashing their checks from Fox, they Bette give them a product that Fox can sell. The presidents are not simply free agents. Fox is their partner and will have a lot to say about whether there will be expansion and which new members will be acceptable and which ones will not.

If I were Fox's basketball expert, I would tell them that St. Louis has simply not established the kind of track record to convince me that they can be successful at this level. Their upgrade under Majerus and Crews is promising, so things could look different 5 years from now. My fear is that the program is where it is because the administration doesn't make good choice. When Cincinnati dismissed Bobby Huggins, they had And Kennedy, a promising young coach as the interim. Kennedy did a good job, but Cincy wanted the best and named Mick Cronin as the permanent Head Coach, charged with rebuilding the program. If St.Louis wants to compete at the highest level, they should have done the same and replaced Crews. If I were a St. Louis fan, knowing what's at stake, I'dbe worried about what the next few years will bring.

Yes, Fox has a vote, but the presidents are the ones who have to live with this long-term. I'm sure they are aware of what Fox wants, and the need to make them happy, but I'm also sure they also want a situation they can live with should Fox not be in the equation 10 years from now.

[DudeAnon]

How many "Household Names" do we have right now? Maybe 2 or 3? If you get a chance for a UCONN you take it.

[BillEsq]

Not to change the subject from football, but I have been assuming St. Louis would be the logical # 11 for the league. But looking at the program's recruiting pipeline, it's pretty bare. If in 3 years they are finishing in the middle of the A-10, do we still add them? Maybe not.

I said i would stay out of the expansion comments so I will. But since you mention our recruits... Actually we had a great recruiting class last year. Picked up a Mr Basketball Indiana Candidate, a couple of well thought of forwards, and a transfer from Nova (the nova guys seemed to think he was good just didn't fit in there). Granted none of these guys might pan out, which could be said about any recruit, but its far from a dead class. I don't think the interim tag hurt recruiting in any way. From what it looks like we have several solid prospects already lined up for next year and the following year might be huge. But I usually wait till the players hit the court in uniform to make my decisions.

On a side note didn't you just add two teams who finished in the middle of the A-10? sorry couldn't resist.

[billyjack]

My main point is that for those that seem to be jilted with fb schools I wonder if they appreciate that the BE w/out fb has never existed. The BE we knew & loved has always had fb schools. The Big East's original "hook" was that it WAS a hybrid model & that formula never changed...until now. The issue was always the balance of power which every conference experiences. The last version of the BE failed b/c of the leadership not the hybrid model. The BE model has proven it's value many times over, specific school presidents & conference officials were to blame for the implosion. But now we have a new leadership team, new media partner, and a new college sports landscape. This new non-fb BE experiment may prove successful or may go become comparable to the A-10. If the latter happens why wouldn't FOX and the BE consider going back to some form of its traditional hybrid model if things don't go as planned early on?

Fox will decide whether anyone needs to be bought off, there are paying the bills after all.

The basketball schools built the Big East's reputation in the 80's and early 90's. Not the football schools. The Big East was never really thought of as a "hybrid" til the mid-90's, right?
- Syracuse was the only school with football to help build our reputation (and their football was awful in the early 80s), but even they were a huge disappointment in the NCAA's til '87. By that time, our reputation as a power conference was already firmly established. In '86 Boeheim was almost run out of town after losing at home to Navy at the Carrier Dome in the NCAA 2nd round (he had also blown an E8-FF opportunity in '84 vs Virginia in Pearl Washington's freshman year).
- BC had a good run in '82, but by the late 80's was horrible.
- Pitt was a big disappointment for us in '88, and did nothing for us in the first 15-20 years (that's why their most famous highlight is a dunk in a mid-season game).
- Connecticut wasn't a football school from the '90 Elite-8 run through '03 or whenever... they did it as a basketball school.

These schools built the early critical conference rep ---> Georgetown, St John's, Villanova.
Then '82 Boston College was a key run for us, and Syracuse.
Later Providence, Seton Hall, then UConn showed how deep the conference was, and each of these 3 did it with some personality and flair.
Pitt's '88 NCAA was a disaster for us.

[DanofXav76]

Also remember-- at the critical time last November, when Louisville announced it was going and Tulane was invited, there was a short period where all 15 of us needed to catch our breath and show some solidarity and strong bonding, no matter how tenuous it may have been...

At that point, UConn president Susan Herbst openly, daily, shouted/begged from the mountaintops that she wanted an ACC invitation... she didn't try to hide it... then Cincinnati was found to have emailed the ACC a powerpoint presentation begging for an invitation... crackhead behavior by both schools... peeing on our legs while they demand more concessions to football... "you invite these new schools without resistance, and shut up while your doing it; meanwhile we're going to openly walk out the front door, urinate on the front walk, kick the dog, and never associate with you again..." "oh, wait, the ACC doesn't want us... give us back the house key that we dropped in the diaper genie, we're staying after all... and don't forget to move your shit back up to the attic, you basketball-only parasites... oh yeah, and get me my crack pipe" --> that's basically what Herbst said to us, and that's the point where the C-7 realized that it needed to split... NO FOOTBALL...!

Give me Creighton, Butler and Xavier every day of the week. Absolutely no football.

Billy Jack! My new hero!!

[marquette]

How many "Household Names" do we have right now? Maybe 2 or 3? If you get a chance for a UCONN you take it.

It is possible this 5 year waiting period might be a sort of 4 way staring contest. The ACC is pretty stable at the moment with their grant of rights, but they are the only conference that would possibly want UConn or Cincy from the P5. The only way UConn or Cincinnati get into the ACC is if the ACC gets raided again (once again, grant of rights makes that unlikely). In the meantime, the ACC assumes UConn and Cincinnati will always be there, waiting for a shot at BCS money. UConn assumes the Big East will always be there, waiting to welcome them back with open arms. The Big East, meanwhile, assumes the current expansion candidates will always be there if they should ever want to expand. Problem is, the ACC may never get raided, UConn may never give up waiting on the ACC, and the Big East may not give up on UConn. I don't mean to insult the expansion candidates, but they likely will be around until everything else is sorted. The P5 are only interested in schools with (good) football and the Big East is a better conference than anyone else out there. I still don't believe UConn gets added with FBS football. UConn is in limbo, no way to get to the P5 (who aren't too excited about them anyway) without football, no way to get into the Big East (who would probably like to have them) with it. AAC is not an acceptable permanent spot for them. Who blinks?

[aughnanure]

How many "Household Names" do we have right now? Maybe 2 or 3? If you get a chance for a UCONN you take it.

4. Arguably 5 with Xavier's success the last decade. Villanova, Marquette, Georgetown and St. John's are known names.