Xavier AD says expanding to 12 schools within 5 years

[ElDonBDon]

Lesser programs "west of the Mississippi?" That's clearly Creighton. Creighton is a great add. Attendance, new market for TV/recruiting, academic fit, and competitive, at least as of right now.

Look, obviously Creighton is not Uconn. Not even close. However, the football situation gave us lemons, so we made lemonade. We took the next best 3 basketball schools available (Zags are too far) to give us a true round-robbin schedule along with some stability, albeit temporary. The situation sucked/sucks, but we made the best of it, and yea, we got lucky with the FS1 deal.

Id love Uconn to join for basketball only. Even if they left in a couple years for the ACC, I think I would still welcome them for a few years until that happened, at least, until I hear a convincing argument otherwise.

In any case, all of this is idle chatter because the AD at X made it clear: this will be the presidents' decision. Like it or not, they are going 90% academic/institutional fit and 10% athletics. Adding Uconn, Cincy, etc., temporarily, good idea or bad idea? Doesn't matter, the presidents considered this option and seem to have ruled it out.

And clearly Temple is not the powerhouse it was in the 90s, but it's still lightyears ahead of UW-Milwaukee.

[Dave]

UConn increases our "Major" credibility. Your list is low mid-major.

I would love for them to join the Big East, but that's not going to happen.

There's no way Fox won't be the primary decision maker on 11 & 12, not the college prez's...That's a good thing for those of us hoping Uconn's consideration comes down to capitalistic forces and not bball irrelevant factors like public or private school....that was a brilliant concept for expansion from 7-10 but now that the league is in a more stable position (an actual commish now) it's far too restrictive going forward. If it comes down to $$ then there's some chance something can be worked out.

Left to their own devices, the presidents will probably screw it up. We were fortunate in timing to have Fox show some guidance in the formation of the conference and the first 3 adds. And now we have Val, who looks pretty capable on paper. Our hope is that with the Val and Fox influences, the presidents can get it right.

UConn is the prize add. And 11 teams can work (20 conference games). If an even number is compelling, a 12th of Temple or Cincy could round out the expansion. Or to a lesser extent the other candidates (SLU, Dayton, etc). But UConn is the prize addition.

I like the thought of BYU (FBS program) and Gonzaga. But geographically, with all the non-rev sports, I just don't think it works. We could have a scheduling arrangement with them that would benefit both parties without the full league affiliation, and without their need to play our basement teams.

Having 10 teams without FBS football, and 1 or 2 with it, does not destabilize the conference with flight risk. Further, the FBS affiliation would be outside of the Big East. The benefits to both the Big East and UConn far outweigh the destabilization risk of them leaving someday. If they left in 5 years, we'd be just fine. Make the exit fee and assignment of TV rights worth our while.

[Bill Marsh]

blah blah blah, can we just wait until they tell us which teams they pick?

Well an AD just named 4. If we are going to speculate, which is what fans do, this seems like as good a time as any.

And he didn't say the additions would come from those four. He said he was mentioning them because they've been the names that have appeared most frequently in conjecture.

Ultimately any new addition is going to have to pass 2 tests:

1. Can they compete at this level?
2. Will their addition make the conference better?

With Fox's help, I think that the Big East will come to see that Richmond has mid major written all over them and is not a viable addition to a prominent basketball conference that aspires to be one of the best in the country.

Despite good attendance, a fan base that I'm sure the league would love to have, Dayton has not demonstrated that they can build and sustain a successful program. They were a power in the '60's and early '70's, but since then it's been a couple of good years followed by droughts. In the final analysis, I believe that they will show up as a program that has not demonstrated that it can compete at this level.

That leaves VCU and St. Louis as the only viable choices from that list. I would be okay with that list, but I believe they fall short of the 2nd test. They don't really make the league better although their additions won't really hurt the league either. VCU is the better of the 2 programs but there are questions of institutional fit. St. Louis is much like Dayton. Good attendance but in spite of a long history with the sport and some major success decades ago, they have failed to demonstrate that they can sustain a successful program beyond a couple of years at a time. The fact that they're coming off a couple of good years helps their application.

Again, with Fox's help, I believe that the Big East presidents will see that if they want to get this league where it aspires to be, those choices are not the best means to accomplish it. Gonzaga is a superb fit in every way except geography. I believe that both sides will be sufficiently motivated to overcome this because they are so desirable in every other way and because they have become such a poor fit in the WCC.

So, if they settle on Gonzaga, will they compromise with St. Louis at #12? Possibly. I could see worse decisions. Or would the East Coast schools insist on geographic balance and want a 6th member in the East. Could happen. VCU would be the better choice, but Richmond, a clear mid major in every way, could get through as a compromise.

IMO, BYU is far and away the best complement to Gonzaga BUT only if they can demonstrate that their attitude toward football is the same as Notre Dame's and that they have settled on independence for the long term future. BYU brings none of the institutional public university problems that VCU does. They have by far the best attendance (16,000) of any school available. They have a consistently good program - 7 bids in the past 10 years, 9 since 2000, a Sweet 16 2 years ago. And it's been consistent success there for decades. There are just too many positives with BYU to ignore. They give Gonzaga a reasonably close rival and can be paired for a single road trip on the schedule.

Will Gonzaga and BYU happen? Probably not. i 'm guessing that there are enough logistical problems to cost them the votes they need.

Could it happen? Absolutely. It's too attractive to Fox not to be considered and to get a long look. I can't imagine that it will be an option that is quickly dismissed. In fact I 'm betting that Fox will force them to look long and hard to consider this pair as the addition that takes them to 12. I could ultimately see a compromise that brings in Gonzaga with either St. Louis or VCU.

I think the reason for putting the time frame at 5 years is precisely because there are no good private school choices within the footprint. The 5 years is enough time for one of the borderline candidates to get their act together sufficiently to convince everyone that they are worth the risk. Whether everyone actually is willing to wait 5 years depends a lot on how successfully the conference is sold on TV, how good the ratings are, and what Fox's needs for winter inventory are. Problems in any of these areas could move up the time line. If the ratings are disappointing, there will be enormous pressure to add Gonzaga and BYU.

[Bill Marsh]

I would love for them to join the Big East, but that's not going to happen.

There's no way Fox won't be the primary decision maker on 11 & 12, not the college prez's...That's a good thing for those of us hoping Uconn's consideration comes down to capitalistic forces and not bball irrelevant factors like public or private school....that was a brilliant concept for expansion from 7-10 but now that the league is in a more stable position (an actual commish now) it's far too restrictive going forward. If it comes down to $$ then there's some chance something can be worked out.

Left to their own devices, the presidents will probably screw it up. We were fortunate in timing to have Fox show some guidance in the formation of the conference and the first 3 adds. And now we have Val, who looks pretty capable on paper. Our hope is that with the Val and Fox influences, the presidents can get it right.

UConn is the prize add. And 11 teams can work (20 conference games). If an even number is compelling, a 12th of Temple or Cincy could round out the expansion. Or to a lesser extent the other candidates (SLU, Dayton, etc). But UConn is the prize addition.

I like the thought of BYU (FBS program) and Gonzaga. But geographically, with all the non-rev sports, I just don't think it works. We could have a scheduling arrangement with them that would benefit both parties without the full league affiliation, and without their need to play our basement teams.

Having 10 teams without FBS football, and 1 or 2 with it, does not destabilize the conference with flight risk. Further, the FBS affiliation would be outside of the Big East. The benefits to both the Big East and UConn far outweigh the destabilization risk of them leaving someday. If they left in 5 years, we'd be just fine. Make the exit fee and assignment of TV rights worth our while.

Don't disagree, but I can guarantee you that UConn is not coming. They have zero interest. I can't imagine that Cincy or Temple have any interest either. But even if they did, why would the BE put a 2nd team in Villanova' and Xavier's back yards?

[Dew]

I disagree that UConn is a "prize" fit. UConn is only UConn because of the Big East. Lets see what they become in the AAC.

[Dave]

Lesser programs "west of the Mississippi?" That's clearly Creighton. Creighton is a great add. Attendance, new market for TV/recruiting, academic fit, and competitive, at least as of right now.

Look, obviously Creighton is not Uconn. Not even close. However, the football situation gave us lemons, so we made lemonade. We took the next best 3 basketball schools available (Zags are too far) to give us a true round-robbin schedule along with some stability, albeit temporary. The situation sucked/sucks, but we made the best of it, and yea, we got lucky with the FS1 deal.

Id love Uconn to join for basketball only. Even if they left in a couple years for the ACC, I think I would still welcome them for a few years until that happened, at least, until I hear a convincing argument otherwise.

In any case, all of this is idle chatter because the AD at X made it clear: this will be the presidents' decision. Like it or not, they are going 90% academic/institutional fit and 10% athletics. Adding Uconn, Cincy, etc., temporarily, good idea or bad idea? Doesn't matter, the presidents considered this option and seem to have ruled it out.

And clearly Temple is not the powerhouse it was in the 90s, but it's still lightyears ahead of UW-Milwaukee.

Sorry. Not talking about Creighton. Creighton was a good add to the new Big East, after the split with the AAC teams had already occurred. In the discussion of some of the contributing factors that led to the demise of the old Big East, I was referring to "west of the Mississippi" schools like SMU, Houston, Tulane, and Tulsa. Our C7 presidents voted in those programs. Bad direction. By the way, our C7 presidents also voted in Temple for basketball before the final implosion.

It's always the presidents' decision when it comes to conference matters. They are the voting representatives. Our hope is that Val and Fox are positive influences and make up for what the presidents lack in sports interest and competence.

[Bill Marsh]

Lesser programs "west of the Mississippi?" That's clearly Creighton. Creighton is a great add. Attendance, new market for TV/recruiting, academic fit, and competitive, at least as of right now.

Look, obviously Creighton is not Uconn. Not even close. However, the football situation gave us lemons, so we made lemonade. We took the next best 3 basketball schools available (Zags are too far) to give us a true round-robbin schedule along with some stability, albeit temporary. The situation sucked/sucks, but we made the best of it, and yea, we got lucky with the FS1 deal.

Id love Uconn to join for basketball only. Even if they left in a couple years for the ACC, I think I would still welcome them for a few years until that happened, at least, until I hear a convincing argument otherwise.

In any case, all of this is idle chatter because the AD at X made it clear: this will be the presidents' decision. Like it or not, they are going 90% academic/institutional fit and 10% athletics. Adding Uconn, Cincy, etc., temporarily, good idea or bad idea? Doesn't matter, the presidents considered this option and seem to have ruled it out.

And clearly Temple is not the powerhouse it was in the 90s, but it's still lightyears ahead of UW-Milwaukee.

Gonzaga works better in a 12 team conference where there will not be complete round robin. So, they will get a closer look this time.

Yes, the presidents will make the decision. Presidents always do in consultation with their Boards of Directors. But they will not have control of revenue. Fox decides that. If they want to retain the Fox contract, they will have to come up with a product that Fox can sell. Te presidents wil not make this decision in a vacuum.

[TheHall]

It's seems that fans who believe Uconn (ie...an unquestioned, disgruntled realignment loser) is not attractive to to the BE & Fox seem to be minimizing the risk of how the league is perceived by advertisers in the first few years. Regardless of whether the BE gets half it's teams in the NCAA, recruits "well", and is much better than the A-10 (the 2nd best non fb conf) if the conference is viewed a a mid-major this venture won't be successful. Fox is paying $300M-$400M for a high-major bball conference which the old BE was. If it's viewed that the conference needs a significant boost from 11 & 12 to close the deal on high-major status then the parties may not have a choice but to make a big splash. I don't know what Uconn future motivations will be except, stable $$ flow, which Fox could be compelled to provide.

I agree with everything Dave said about the BE being strong enough to have 1 potential flight risk in the next 10 years or so...It wouldn't be only the BE, every conference except the B1G, the PAC12 & the SEC have potential flight risks over that same time. And if it happens that Uconn would leave after a few years then the teams being named as "likely" now WILL STILL BE THERE.

[OutlawWales]

Ten teams is just so perfect for a basketball league, allowing the true home/away against every single conference team every year and avoiding potentially uneven schedules from only playing some of the teams twice, etc. It's a shame that the financial considerations have to push for expansion and twelve teams, especially if that expansion has to happen quickly instead of letting things get established for a couple of years first.

[Dave]

Don't disagree, but I can guarantee you that UConn is not coming. They have zero interest. I can't imagine that Cincy or Temple have any interest either. But even if they did, why would the BE put a 2nd team in Villanova' and Xavier's back yards?

This 2 teams in 1 market is made into a negative issue in these discussions, when actually it is not a negative at all. Rivalries make conferences. Close geography enhances rivalries. In the Philly market, for example, Temple would not detract from Nova. Their games would only be bigger if they were in the same conference. Nothing to fear with Temple.

I am not sold on the "no interest guarantee". For UConn it's the best of all worlds. They keep the best FBS affiliation, and money, that is available to them. They upgrade their basketball revenue. Non-rev sports have a more regional home. And they have a better academic affiliation.