Top 50 Players in the Big East

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Gillespie and Bey ranked ahead of Scruggs and Jones is some major Nova bias. They're on a better team but those two are not better players then Scruggs and Jones.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Gillespie and Bey ranked ahead of Scruggs and Jones is some major Nova bias. They're on a better team but those two are not better players then Scruggs and Jones.

Totally agree....

Should be
1a. Powell
1b. Howard
3-7. The Xavier starting 5
8. First X guy off the bench
9. Steele - even though he's a coach, he's still a better player than anyone left to rank
10. JP Macura - just because he's the best BE player ever
11-45... yada, yada, yada.
46-50. The Nova starting 5

We got it.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Gillespie and Bey ranked ahead of Scruggs and Jones is some major Nova bias. They're on a better team but those two are not better players then Scruggs and Jones.

Totally agree....

Should be
1a. Powell
1b. Howard
3-7. The Xavier starting 5
8. First X guy off the bench
9. Steele - even though he's a coach, he's still a better player than anyone left to rank
10. JP Macura - just because he's the best BE player ever
11-45... yada, yada, yada.
46-50. The Nova starting 5

We got it.

Yeah that's clearly what I said

God forbid everyone not bow down to Nova. You have the best team and the best coach but not the best players. Gillespie is the typical Nova guard that everyone would love to have on their team but in no way is he a better player the Scruggs. Just look at their stats and compare. There's a reason one will get NBA looks and the other won't. Bey was great last year as a freshman and he could make a big sophomore jump. But again just compare his stats to Jones and no way should Bey be ranked ahead of him. He very well could and probably will be a better player over the course of their careers but we're not comparing that, we're only comparing for this season.

[gtmoBlue]

Excellent points by D Brown. I had both Bey and Tyreke last season...Both good players, but Jones was there in the clutch with his rebounding and consistency scoring.
I'd favor Tyreke over Saddiq by the thinnest of margins.

Great comback Gumby.

From my seat in the nosebleed section, looks like all 3 teams (Nova/X/SH) are overrated.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Gillespie and Bey ranked ahead of Scruggs and Jones is some major Nova bias. They're on a better team but those two are not better players then Scruggs and Jones.

Totally agree....

Should be
1a. Powell
1b. Howard
3-7. The Xavier starting 5
8. First X guy off the bench
9. Steele - even though he's a coach, he's still a better player than anyone left to rank
10. JP Macura - just because he's the best BE player ever
11-45... yada, yada, yada.
46-50. The Nova starting 5

We got it.

Yeah that's clearly what I said

God forbid everyone not bow down to Nova. You have the best team and the best coach but not the best players. Gillespie is the typical Nova guard that everyone would love to have on their team but in no way is he a better player the Scruggs. Just look at their stats and compare. There's a reason one will get NBA looks and the other won't. Bey was great last year as a freshman and he could make a big sophomore jump. But again just compare his stats to Jones and no way should Bey be ranked ahead of him. He very well could and probably will be a better player over the course of their careers but we're not comparing that, we're only comparing for this season.

A little sensitive are we?

No, you are actually comparing to LAST season when you ask to look at stats. So what is the biggest reason that all those young X guys improved their stats on their march towards the NIT 2nd round last year? Usage. They needed to shoot more. They needed to play more minutes. They needed to do more of everything because X had lost Trevon, JP, O'Mara, Kanter and Gates. Our lead guard was Booth. Our go-to forward, Paschall. So, much like what happened to Scruggs and Naji last year, Gillespie and Bey will become more of the focal points and many expect their overall stats will increase with usage.

But, stats only tell part of the story. A great example of that is Naji. Good player. First team all-BE? We'll see. But if you looked at his stats in a vacuum you'd see a very inefficient player. Same with Q. Both struggle doing the fundamental thing that a good BB player needs to do: shoot the ball. So in their cases, stats would be used to make a case against them in lists like this.

Lastly, so according to you, a big part of this list should be about who's getting to the NBA? So are you intimating that a guy like Donte DiVincenzo was a better player than Trevon in BE '17-18 because he was a first round pick and Trevon was not? C'mon we both know that is not the case. Whether Gillespie ever sniffs the NBA has no bearing on whether he is a very good college player.

[scoscox]

A little sensitive are we?

No, you are actually comparing to LAST season when you ask to look at stats. So what is the biggest reason that all those young X guys improved their stats on their march towards the NIT 2nd round last year? Usage. They needed to shoot more. They needed to play more minutes. They needed to do more of everything because X had lost Trevon, JP, O'Mara, Kanter and Gates. Our lead guard was Booth. Our go-to forward, Paschall. So, much like what happened to Scruggs and Naji last year, Gillespie and Bey will become more of the focal points and many expect their overall stats will increase with usage.

But, stats only tell part of the story. A great example of that is Naji. Good player. First team all-BE? We'll see. But if you looked at his stats in a vacuum you'd see a very inefficient player. Same with Q. Both struggle doing the fundamental thing that a good BB player needs to do: shoot the ball. So in their cases, stats would be used to make a case against them in lists like this.

Lastly, so according to you, a big part of this list should be about who's getting to the NBA? So are you intimating that a guy like Donte DiVincenzo was a better player than Trevon in BE '17-18 because he was a first round pick and Trevon was not? C'mon we both know that is not the case. Whether Gillespie ever sniffs the NBA has no bearing on whether he is a very good college player.

The usage argument doesn't make sense when applied to tyrique and paul. Do you think Jay Wright wishes he could've gotten more production last year from people not named Booth and Paschall? If he could've gotten more out of gillespie and bey he would've taken it. Yes, we had to rely on those four guys a lot out of necessity, but Tyrique and Paul were both very efficient, so their counting stats are not deceptive in the way that someone like Quentin's or Naji's are to some extent.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

A little sensitive are we?

No, you are actually comparing to LAST season when you ask to look at stats. So what is the biggest reason that all those young X guys improved their stats on their march towards the NIT 2nd round last year? Usage. They needed to shoot more. They needed to play more minutes. They needed to do more of everything because X had lost Trevon, JP, O'Mara, Kanter and Gates. Our lead guard was Booth. Our go-to forward, Paschall. So, much like what happened to Scruggs and Naji last year, Gillespie and Bey will become more of the focal points and many expect their overall stats will increase with usage.

But, stats only tell part of the story. A great example of that is Naji. Good player. First team all-BE? We'll see. But if you looked at his stats in a vacuum you'd see a very inefficient player. Same with Q. Both struggle doing the fundamental thing that a good BB player needs to do: shoot the ball. So in their cases, stats would be used to make a case against them in lists like this.

Lastly, so according to you, a big part of this list should be about who's getting to the NBA? So are you intimating that a guy like Donte DiVincenzo was a better player than Trevon in BE '17-18 because he was a first round pick and Trevon was not? C'mon we both know that is not the case. Whether Gillespie ever sniffs the NBA has no bearing on whether he is a very good college player.

The usage argument doesn't make sense when applied to tyrique and paul. Do you think Jay Wright wishes he could've gotten more production last year from people not named Booth and Paschall? If he could've gotten more out of gillespie and bey he would've taken it. Yes, we had to rely on those four guys a lot out of necessity, but Tyrique and Paul were both very efficient, so their counting stats are not deceptive in the way that someone like Quentin's or Naji's are to some extent.

This. Paul and Tyrique are the two players on X who actually are efficient, especially Tyrique. Naji has all the talent in the world but needs to get a lot more efficient this season. He finished last season on a hot streak but his overall numbers from last year were very inefficient. Personally I think Scruggs is our best player and I wish he would take more shots. But he doesn't seem to have that attitude yet and lets Naji do more of the work. Q was hugely disappointing last year and honestly I just hope he doesn't shoot that much this season. I don't really have that high of hopes for him, just be a pass first point guard and let everyone else do the scoring. I would have no issue if Q was ranked lower then 20.

Gumby I'll bet you right now that Gillespie's stats don't go up much this year. He is what he is, a solid college point guard that happens to play on a great team. As sco said if he could have given the team more last year he would have, but his ceiling has been reached. Bey, the other returners, and especially the freshman are the ones who are going to make up for losing Pascal and Booth. Gillespie will just continue to be his solid but not great self. Bey I think will have a good season but I don't think he'll be as consistent as a sophomore as senior Tyrique. And to answer your question Trevon was probably the better player that season but DiVincenzo wasn't exactly far behind him. The only reason DiVincenzo's numbers weren't better was because he was on an absolutely stacked team. He came up huge in his teams biggest game while sadly Trevon no showed in ours.

[Hall2012]

Gillespie Soph year: 29.4 mpg, 10.9 ppg, 2.4 reb, 2.8 ast, 1.1 stl, 1.5 tov - - .409 FG%, .379 3pt%, .839 ft%
Arcidiacono Soph year: 31.1 mpg, 9.9 ppg, 2.4 reb, 3.5 ast, 1.1 stl, 1.4 tov - .395 FG%, .345 3pt%, .703 ft%

Idk if Gillespie has "reached his ceiling," but if his ceiling is Ryan Arcidiacono I think Villanova will take that every day of the week.

[GumbyDamnit!]

This. Paul and Tyrique are the two players on X who actually are efficient, especially Tyrique. Naji has all the talent in the world but needs to get a lot more efficient this season. He finished last season on a hot streak but his overall numbers from last year were very inefficient. Personally I think Scruggs is our best player and I wish he would take more shots. But he doesn't seem to have that attitude yet and lets Naji do more of the work. Q was hugely disappointing last year and honestly I just hope he doesn't shoot that much this season. I don't really have that high of hopes for him, just be a pass first point guard and let everyone else do the scoring. I would have no issue if Q was ranked lower then 20.

Gumby I'll bet you right now that Gillespie's stats don't go up much this year. He is what he is, a solid college point guard that happens to play on a great team. As sco said if he could have given the team more last year he would have, but his ceiling has been reached. Bey, the other returners, and especially the freshman are the ones who are going to make up for losing Pascal and Booth. Gillespie will just continue to be his solid but not great self. Bey I think will have a good season but I don't think he'll be as consistent as a sophomore as senior Tyrique. And to answer your question Trevon was probably the better player that season but DiVincenzo wasn't exactly far behind him. The only reason DiVincenzo's numbers weren't better was because he was on an absolutely stacked team. He came up huge in his teams biggest game while sadly Trevon no showed in ours.

Reasonable response. I agree with much of what you say. But I do think it's easy to look at someone like Gillespie and then at P. Scruggs and get suckered into appearance bias and H.S. ranking bias. Scruggs looks the part; he was a top 50 recruit in that class. Gillespie looks like the kid you used to play against in 8th grade CYO; he was a far less heralded recruit. I agree that Scruggs has the higher upside potential but you might be surprised at how similar these two are from a stats perspective.

Below are the career #'s of Gillespie and Scruggs per 40 minutes. You've made up your mind on who is better but, again, the stats might surprise you / others.

Ok, so without saying who is who...

Pts: 13.9 / 13.9
Rebs: 3.4 / 5.6
Asst.: 3.5 / 4.1
TO's: 1.8 / 3.4
A-TO%: 1.94 / 1.21
Stl: 1.6 / 1.4
FG%: .419 / .459
3FG% .383 / .357
eFG% .541 / .534
FT%: .829 / .732
ORtg: 121.2 / 104.1
DRtg: 104.6 / 105.4


Not too hard to figure out that Gillespie is the left and Scruggs the right. So from a stats perspective, Scruggs is the the more physical guard who undoubtedly attacks the rim more (higher # of 2pt. FGA's) and rebounds the ball better. Gillespie is the better effective shooter, (scores more pts. per attempt than PS, and is better at the FT line); he takes care of the ball better (asst/to%), and has better offensive and defensive ratings (+16.6, while PS is a -1.3). So other than the fact that Scruggs is the more imposing and physically talented, as actual basketball players, take away the names and anyone would be hard pressed to make any definitive conclusions. Although out of 12 categories CG bests PS in 8 of them. Just sayin'.

And lastly I have said before that I think Scruggs is the best player on your team and if I were voting would probably have him somewhere around 5-6 in the league. But we'll probably see Naji there instead. I just think going out of your way to throw barbs at Gillespie was unwarranted.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Regarding Bey, if I pulled up the same stats (career / 40 minutes) vs. Naji, I think that would be an eye-opener as well. But I'm not about to state that he belongs ahead of Naji on this list. Just pointing out that perhaps there is some homerism at play here, which was the point of my tongue in cheek response.