Which BEast programs NEED to succeed

[Friarfan2]

I am not knocking Marquette. Villanova is a better brand right now. I don't know how any objective person can disagree.

Since 2000, they have both been very good. Nova had a 1 seed elite 8 team, a final four, a couple other sweet 16's and one of the most recognizable coaches in the nation. They had 2 first team all Americans with foye and Reynolds. Marquette has the most established player on wade, they also have a final four, they had another team make a run to the elite 8 and have also been in the sweet 16 other years. Both teams have been to the dance a bunch in the past decade.

Marquette missed the ncaa tournament from 1983-1993' a period where nova was a tourney regular, won a national championship, and had a couple other deep runs.
Marquette picked it up a bit in the 1990's, but they had suffered a recognition hit from their prior decade, while villanova continued to make the ncaa your meant and produced a decent number of nba players and, perhaps most importantly to the discussion, had many, many more nationally televised games than Marquette in this period. I'm not claiming villanova were world beaters in the 1990's, but they remained in the national spotlight as a quality team, while Marquette was trying to rebuild its image after a decade long post-al McGuire period of futility.

Villanova and Georgetown are definitely the league's two biggest name brands. I would put St. John's and Marquette on that next level. (I know, St. John's has stunk for a decade, but they were very solid up until 10 yrs ago and were among the top brand in the country before it all unravelled and they hired norm Roberts).

Success-wise Xavier should be there too, but they never received enough exposure to really take the leap (similar to Marquette during the 1990's and pre-big east).

No need to get offended. I am not insulting Marquette.

[Bill Marsh]

We need programs to have brand recognition. Right now, the two biggest brands in the conference are villanova and Georgetown. They have been the best teams the past decade, have the best history long term, and are located in major metropolitan markets. These two are definitely the backbone behind our league's brand recognition at this time.

Xavier and Marquette have had good success. Xavier has good potential for brand recognition as they step up their exposure. Marquette has great Midwest regional brand recognition, and their national brand recognition has been improving the past dozen yrs. While Marquette had success 30+ yrs ago, they had a period where they were not a highly recognized program pre-Dwayne wade (villanova and Georgetown stayed strong through the 80's, had those legendary kittles/Iverson battles in the 90's, and have been good the past 10 yrs), and Marquette is in Milwaukee which isn't exactly big time.

Creighton has great regional support, but share the problems that providence, seton hall, butler, and Marquette share in that the markets are limited. Butler and Marquette have shown that success in the ncaa tourney can overcome a smaller market than the dc, Philly, NYC and Chicago teams have working for them, but it is still a road block.

DePaul and St. John's are in those huge markets, with huge alumni bases, but just haven't got traction over the past decade because they haven't been good. In my opinion, these are the two schools where turning it around would really benefit the league.

How can you start your post with a comment on the teams that have had the most success in the past decade and not mention Butler?

Butler has been to 6 NCAA tournaments, 3 Sweet 16's, and 2 championship games in the past decade while compiling 14 tournament wins. Who in the conference has done better than that?

Georgetown had success early in the past decade but become famous in recent years for spitting the bit when it came to tournament time.

You finally get to Butler toward the end when you complain about their limited market. Well, they have the same market as Indiana University, one of the all time programs in college basketball. Kentucky has an even smaller market and Kansas smaller than that. But those markets haven't held them back.

What's Georgetown's market? They have DC, which is actually a small market unless you also have the suburbs, which happens to be where the University of Maryland resides. Yet Georgetown's success made them into a national brand as you mentioned. What's duke's market? Especially with them being located in the same research triangle as UNC and NC State? Yet Duke is a national brand obviously. Same can be said for Syracuse which has no big market that is naturally theirs.

Teams that win create their own market. With winning, everything else takes care of itself.

[Omahanian]

Watch us work...you'll learn to hate us.

If I were you I'd have my team make a sweet 16 in the past nearly 40 years before getting so cocky.

Yeah we've got a ways to go yet. Hope we can not only do it but do it with class and dignity and good sportsmanship.

[Friarfan2]

Butler is great. I don't think anyone would say that the butler basketball brand, as a whole is on the level of Georgetown, villanova, St. John's or Marquette. Most people hadn't heard of butler 6 or 7 yrs ago.

Butlers championship game runs have been great for them and put them on the map. A map that schools like Georgetown, Marquette, villanova and St. John's have already long been residents.

I think saying butler is the biggest brand name in the conference, or even up there with the big 4 of nova, gtown, Marquette and St. John's, would be like saying George mason was a bigger brand than Georgetown in2006 because they had been to a more recent final four, or saying that VCU or Wichita state are bigger brand names than say Arkansas or St. John's. a brand takes a lot longer to build up than one or two recent runs.

I think you are on a bit of a tangent with your post.

[Bulldog_Muskie]

I think saying butler is the biggest brand name in the conference, or even up there with the big 4 of nova, gtown, Marquette and St. John's, would be like saying George mason was a bigger brand than Georgetown in2006 because they had been to a more recent final four, or saying that VCU or Wichita state are bigger brand names than say Arkansas or St. John's. a brand takes a lot longer to build up than one or two recent runs.

I think you are on a bit of a tangent with your post.

I'd say the entire big east and maybe half the A10 are bigger names than Arkansas in terms of basketball!

[dmac80]

What's fun is that with the new league and 3 new additions we can have this discussion, about which brand is best and what the pecking order is....once the season starts we an see how it applies now...I hope PC can claw their way back into the discussion but they've got work too do to get there. Gonna be great fun. I'd rank the brands as Gtown, Nova, Marquette, St. John's, Butler, with the caveat that Butler has a short history of note and has lost their coach, so we'll see if they maintain,

[aughnanure]

I think saying butler is the biggest brand name in the conference, or even up there with the big 4 of nova, gtown, Marquette and St. John's, would be like saying George mason was a bigger brand than Georgetown in2006 because they had been to a more recent final four, or saying that VCU or Wichita state are bigger brand names than say Arkansas or St. John's. a brand takes a lot longer to build up than one or two recent runs.

I think you are on a bit of a tangent with your post.

I'd say the entire big east and maybe half the A10 are bigger names than Arkansas in terms of basketball!

Oh look, a Butler fan who's only paid attention to college basketball for six years.

[Bulldog_Muskie]

I think saying butler is the biggest brand name in the conference, or even up there with the big 4 of nova, gtown, Marquette and St. John's, would be like saying George mason was a bigger brand than Georgetown in2006 because they had been to a more recent final four, or saying that VCU or Wichita state are bigger brand names than say Arkansas or St. John's. a brand takes a lot longer to build up than one or two recent runs.

I think you are on a bit of a tangent with your post.

I'd say the entire big east and maybe half the A10 are bigger names than Arkansas in terms of basketball!

Oh look, a Butler fan who's only paid attention to college basketball for six years.

Please. Loyola and LaSalle have won titles too. The razorbacks had a nice resurgence in the early 90's after being slightly above average for some time but have since fallen off. Sounds like a few big east schools if you ask me. Comparing them to the a10? Probably a little hyperbole but it speaks to the recent state of their program. In my opinion many recruits today would view them below big east schools and even some in the A10. Point being, someone says big time college bball today and very few would think of Arkansas.

[Bill Marsh]

Butler is great. I don't think anyone would say that the butler basketball brand, as a whole is on the level of Georgetown, villanova, St. John's or Marquette. Most people hadn't heard of butler 6 or 7 yrs ago.

Butlers championship game runs have been great for them and put them on the map. A map that schools like Georgetown, Marquette, villanova and St. John's have already long been residents.

I think saying butler is the biggest brand name in the conference, or even up there with the big 4 of nova, gtown, Marquette and St. John's, would be like saying George mason was a bigger brand than Georgetown in2006 because they had been to a more recent final four, or saying that VCU or Wichita state are bigger brand names than say Arkansas or St. John's. a brand takes a lot longer to build up than one or two recent runs.

I think you are on a bit of a tangent with your post.

So, St. John's hasn't been to a Final Four in almost 30 years. They haven't been to a championship game in more than 60 years, but they're a bigger name in the world of college basketball today than Butler? Wow!

[redmen9194]

When St. John's is good, New York City is engaged in college hoops. From 2004-2010 when St. John's basically dismantled its program and started from the beginning, there was no buzz for college hoops in the City. In Lavin's first year 2010-2011, the City was all over St. John's. They wound up finishing third, sold out the Garden for the first time in 8 years, were a national story and New York City was again tuned into college baskatball. The Big East must use NYC to its advantage - its one of the league's biggest assets. St. John's has been playing at the Garden for 82 years. They have played over 650 games at the Garden and won over 400. The Big East can be successful without a strong St. John's, but a strong St. John's team will benefit the league possibly more than any other simply for what it could bring to the league.