Future BE Member Saint Louis vs St. Bonny A-10 Championship

[ProprietyofLeyluken]

They were just having fun with that list, none of us are that delusional. But I do think uconn eventually comes back. Good luck against the Hokies!

Not sure if serious...

UConn never left the Big East. It stayed with ESPN and the FB schools, and it was just announced they procured a Billion dollar contract (which - combined with other sources - will double the Holyland’s contract).

I think it’s safe to say that ship has sailed...

[ProprietyofLeyluken]

As for St Louis, the time to move on them is now, given the reported pro rata clause in the FS1 deal.

Not using that clause is beyond absurd because their ability to become worthy of membership can really only be realized once they have access to the resources many are questioning their worthiness of.

St Louis, if given that push, is really a necessary component to push value in this league for the 2025 deal. Without that added inventory, this conference has less to sell.

It’s more of a “you’re damned if you don’t” scenario.

UConn doesn’t want 4 million dollars and Fox.

[prebilliken]

2a) – Please see: Do Dayton and Xavier still compete for high school students as 'customers' ? (originally posted on September 7, 2017).

2b) – Please see: Exploding the "Southwest Ohio College Basketball TV Market" Myth. (originally posted on September 7, 2017).

3) – A five-year average RPI/NET Ranking of #194 is not ‘painfully inconsistent’. It is embarrassing.

4a) – In a city of 2,800,000 people, in a season when the Billikens were predicted to win the Atlantic 10 Championship (and did), the Billikens still averaged fewer than 7,000 fans per game (and more than 3,500 empty seats per game). The Billikens will always be second to the Missouri Tigers in the St. Louis college sports TV market. It is quite probable that the apathy shown towards Billikens basketball at the Chaifetz Arena turnstiles is reflected in the viewership of Billikens basketball on TV.

4b) – A trio of 2019 commitment who are presently ranked #297, #332, and #389 would not fit anyone’s definition of “three highly-touted recruits”.

5a) – St. Louis never has been and never will be a ‘college basketball’ city. The size of the media market is of little consequence when the market has little interest in college basketball in general, and little interest in the Saint Louis Billikens in particular.

Oh Fieldhouse... I can see why you'd be so volatile after the way this season has treated you. Let's see:

2A and 2B) All of these stats still miss the point, you do not add anything in comparison of the St. Louis Market. So Dayton and Cincinnati are two different TV markets... So you add the 64th largest TV market and a small share of the 34th largest TV market instead of the 21st largest market? Stop. The Billikens broadcast every non-National TV game on Fox Sports Midwest, which is guaranteed to be in the homes of every St. Louisan because that is the network the Cardinals play on. In the city of St. Louis you are always competing for second place to the Cards, which is fine and well. So you ride their coattails as best you can. And the Bills do it well. The games on FSMW feature a broadcast team led by Dan McLaughlin, the TV voice of the Cardinals. Their radio broadcasts are led by local sports radio host Bob Ramsey. You have two of the biggest media names in St. Louis without the last name "Buck" as the ambassadors for the program. What's more is that are legit fans of the programs, constantly acting on behalf of the school. The post-Rams era of St. Louis sports has been, and will continue to be a massive opportunity for every team in the Lou. St. Louisans are desperate to support anything with "Saint Louis" on the jersey.

Furthermore, SLU has huge alumni bases in the Big East markets of Chicago and New York, our two largest alumni orgs in terms of money donated to the school. You add incremental TV viewers in Big East markets, you add incremental seats in Big East markets. What is the Dayton alumni base like in the Big Apple? I'd be willing to bet that the SLU base in Cincinnati itself is not insignificant with how many students come in from Cincy high schools. You can fill Dayton's off campus arena as much as you want, the only time Dayton has more screens that the Billikens is when the First Four is being broadcasted in March.

3) The Dayton-SLU series is 9-11 in favor of Dayton since 2010. That's a game away from .500. Over those past ten years, points for the Bills:1,211; points for the Flyers: 1,246. The Bills and Flyers each have 4 NCAA appearances. The Bills have 2 Conference Season Championships, the Flyers have 1 shared, and 1 outright. The Bills have 2 Conference Tournament Championships, the Flyers have none. So, for a nearly identical head to head match-up, I'll take my two trophy advantage. That's actually three trophies if you recall we are the current holders of the illustrious Arch-Baron Cup. Dayton really seems to have an edge on this "embarrassing" program.

4B) You should be careful throwing around recruiting rankings, seeing that SLU has the second highest rated class in the A10, which is, woof, 7 spots higher than Dayton at 9. All three of those recruits are 3 stars by any recruiting service ranking, the national numbers don't even begin to tell the story on them. What's more is that two of those three recruits are from the Lou, for a city that doesn't care, the players from that city sure seem to. (See also: Goodwin, Jordan. 5 Star recruit from St. Louis currently on the roster.) Dayton picks up the recruiting scraps from X, UC, and often Ohio State. SLU punches with Mizzou and Illinois, and often wins.

5A) I think this actually just brings me to the over-arching point: What do you really think Dayton adds to the Big East? What do you think Fox Executives and Val Ackerman would see in Dayton? A dedicated fan base? Sure. A bridge between Marquette/Depaul and Creighton? No. A significant media market? No. An institutional fit? Sure. Yet, SLU is just as strong there. Actually, stronger, its a higher ranked school, with a larger endowment, more research capability, and a more widely spread alumni base.

Listen, Dayton fans, while my rivals, are dope, they show out for games, they get loud, they love their hoops. But there is an institution in the Big East that hates Dayton, it ain't happening. This is about what the next school brings to the table, and you'd rather have another major media market rather than another slice of Southwest Ohio, its as simple as that.

[scoscox]

Let them fight!

[butlerguy03]

NOT MORE OF THIS.

No reason the Big East adds an A-10 team right now. If it is a major basketball name, yes, but I'm sorry - for what you have in Dayton and Saint Louis - those are not schools people outside of college basketball diehards know of as a basketball school, it would look like a mid-major move, similar to Loyola going to the MVC a few years ago. Butler, Temple, and Xavier were the biggest names in the A-10, and they've been poached. Creighton and Wichita were the biggest names in the MVC, and have been poached. All 5 of those were "basketball schools" to the outside person.

[prebilliken]

NOT MORE OF THIS.

No reason the Big East adds an A-10 team right now. If it is a major basketball name, yes, but I'm sorry - for what you have in Dayton and Saint Louis - those are not schools people outside of college basketball diehards know of as a basketball school, it would look like a mid-major move, similar to Loyola going to the MVC a few years ago. Butler, Temple, and Xavier were the biggest names in the A-10, and they've been poached. Creighton and Wichita were the biggest names in the MVC, and have been poached. All 5 of those were "basketball schools" to the outside person.

Its a conference talk board, if you don't like conference realignment talk on a conference board, don't read the thread.

[kmacker69]

NOT MORE OF THIS.

No reason the Big East adds an A-10 team right now. If it is a major basketball name, yes, but I'm sorry - for what you have in Dayton and Saint Louis - those are not schools people outside of college basketball diehards know of as a basketball school, it would look like a mid-major move, similar to Loyola going to the MVC a few years ago. Butler, Temple, and Xavier were the biggest names in the A-10, and they've been poached. Creighton and Wichita were the biggest names in the MVC, and have been poached. All 5 of those were "basketball schools" to the outside person.

Its a conference talk board, if you don't like conference realignment talk on a conference board, don't read the thread.

It's a BE board, so yeah... Come at your own risk and with thicker skin, because we can think and express opinions that you add nothing of value to the conference at this time. Maybe in the future, St L could, but Dayton doesn't have the market to even be a consideration IMHO.

[NJRedman]

Congratulations to SLU, who really turned their season around in the past week with an excellent A10 Tournament. Travis Ford took at team that was dead last in the A10 three years ago, and has them dancing after an A10 Tournament championship in Year 3. Very impressive. There is little doubt that SLU is attempting to position itself for a future BE invitation. They have the basketball budget, the market and the institutional fit that the league desires and a home arena that is on-par with our membership. If/when they get basketball performing at a consistent level at the top of the A10, the dominoes will start to fall in their favor.

Personally, I would argue that the time is now, this Spring, to add an eleventh member. Doing so would allow our membership to increase its content, move to a 20-game conference schedule (while still keeping the round robin), and increase our presence at MSG for the Big East Tournament. By selling out every session of this year's conference tournament, the next step of our league's growth *should* be to increase the amount of games we have there. SLU has consistently traveled well to Brooklyn for the A10 Tournament, and there is little doubt that it would continue in the Big East. Additionally, our league membership would be adding a peer institution - a private, Jesuit school, with strong academics, a high enrollment and endowment, is located in a top media market (which now does not have an NFL team during the winter months to take away interest), and that is also rising to be one of the top men's basketball programs in the A10.

The mathematical data supports an addition to the league as increasing the average number of bids per year. Grabbing SLU in the near-term, especially after they have earned another tournament bid, would allow them to earn a portion of our current television (which our TV contract allows) and grow into becoming a strong and valuable member of the Big East long-term (just as Butler, Creighton and Xavier have) in advance of our next television deal.

I just don't see how they would fare any better than depaul? DePaul had more basketball history prior to joining the big east and they've only once finished with a winning record in conference play since joining - in fact, they've finished last in 9 out of the 14 season they've been a member. Would it really be beneficial to the league to add another bottom dweller in regards to the big east brand? I feel like it would make more sense to see what happens to UCONN in the next tv deal to see if they'd consider dropping their FB program rather than rushing to add a meddling A-10 school who isn't going anywhere else in the interim.

To be fair to DePaul they walked into a wood chipper of a conference. The BE then was insane with half the league constantly being ranked at any given time. It not only chewed up DePaul it chewed my Johnnies up and we haven't fully recovered from yet. I know Hall and PC didn't bounce back after they were able to get out from under that rock. It's funny how GTown and UConn have had the complete different reaction after having relatively easier schedules.

[NJRedman]

We have to catch up with the ACC and nothing less than Gonzaga or UConn will do. Why would anybody suggest St. Bonnie ? seems people wanna add certain teams because they got relatives going there. Crazy selfish !

1. We're never catching the ACC and thats never been the goal. Thats why we haven't invited a team in Spokane.

2. No one mentioned the Bonnies, if you read it right you would see the future big east member is Saint Louis as everyone else here took it.

[kayako]

Might be a knee-jerk reaction after our crappy tournament result, but expanding to 12 reduces the risk of every single team in the conference being mediocre.

Bring in 2 highest basketball budgets. In the long run, money will talk.