Future BE Member Saint Louis vs St. Bonny A-10 Championship

[stever20]

how did 20 conference games help the Big Ten this year? Iniana was 9-2, but because they had 20 conference games, they're stuck at 17-15 and NIT.

Until the committee shows a willingness to start taking those 17-15, 18-15 type of teams- i think 20 conference games is a HUGE mistake.

A good observation, Stever. Frankly, I don't think there is enough data to definitively argue whether a 20-game schedule is beneficial or not to conferences yet. Ultimately, it *could* come down to how smart teams can schedule OOC (but with tournaments/challenges/rivalries, it doesn't leave a whole lot of wiggle room). That obviously didn't help Indiana this year, but they should never lose to Nebraska, Northwestern or Rutgers - ever. The conference schedule didn't prevent Indiana from getting a tournament bid; it's own play did. Additionally, the B1G got eight bids this year - the most it has had with its current configuration (and that was with Indiana being down). One could argue that its 20-game schedule was actually beneficial to the conference.

maybe you're right there- but then again Indiana missed in a year where they sweep Michigan St and beat Wisconsin- and have only 2 OOC losses.

And then you have Nebraska at 10-1 OOC.

Those 2 are pretty darning indictments of the 20 game schedule. I'd say if they don't have 20 this year, it's very possible if not likely the Big Ten gets 9 or 10 teams in. Every conference game is a zero sum game. for every winner, there is a loser.

Also, you say the league got 8 bids in, the most they've gotten in. That's true. However in the other 4 years of this set up, they were ranked 4/5/4/5. And got in 7/7/7/4 teams. This year they were #1 conference. So don't think you can say that the 20 game schedule helped them out, but rather that factoid.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

Again, it comes back to Saint Louis. St. Louis is the #21 media market, without an NFL team, in a strong recruiting area. The school is a top-100 national university, with a strong enrollment (would be fourth largest in the BE), an incredibly strong endowment (would be only behind Georgetown) and has strong alumni numbers in Chicago, New York City, Philadelphia, Cincinnati and Washington D.C. They have a 10,600-seat arena, which gets strong attendance figures when they A) play good teams and/or B) when the team is competitive. You also add a travel companion for Creighton, DePaul and Marquette. Coming off an A10 Championship, and an NCAA Tournament appearance (4th this decade), I think the Big East would acquire a ton of value in advance of our next TV deal with Fox. For Fox, there is really no disadvantage to approve such an addition, since any addition would be given a pro-rated portion of the 12-year, $500 million, deal we originally signed for (coming out to under $5 million per year until 2025).

All true, GoldenWarrior11. However, Saint Louis would also bring down the conference averages of the Big East's most important numbers:

Saint Louis 2014-15 Final RPI Ranking: 273
Saint Louis 2015-16 Final RPI Ranking: 207
Saint Louis 2016-17 Final RPI Ranking: 247
Saint Louis 2017-18 Final RPI Ranking: 138
Saint Louis 2018-19 Mar. 19 NET Ranking: 103
Saint Louis Five-year Average Ranking: 194 ...... Saint Louis 2018-19 Average Home Attendance: 6,890

Saint Louis was picked to finish in first place in 2018-19 in the October 2018 Atlantic 10 Coaches and Media Poll. To their credit, the Billikens won the Atlantic 10 Tournament, but that was more a result of the Atlantic 10 collectively having a very bad season rather than Saint Louis having a very good team. The 2019-20 season looks to be another rebuilding year for Travis Ford, who is now struggling on the recruiting trail.

The Saint Louis Billikens are led by Senior starting players SF Javon Bess (15.3 PPG and 6.7 RPG), PG Tramaine Isabell Jr. (13.8 PPG, 4.1 RPG, and 3.7 APG), and PF D.J. Foreman (5.9 PPG and 4.3 RPG), with Senior reserve SG Dion Wiley adding 4.7 PPG in 15 MPG.

I would expect Saint Louis to take a step backwards next season.

Blue Demons Land Transfer Carte'Are Gordon - DePaul University Men’s Basketball – January 16, 2019

DePaul head coach Dave Leitao announced today that Carte'Are Gordon has transferred to DePaul from Saint Louis.

The 6-9 power forward was a consensus four-star recruit and ranked No. 75 in the ESPN Top 100 rankings for 2018 coming out of Webster Groves High School in St. Louis. Gordon led the Statesmen to back-to-back state titles and averaged 18.0 points and 8.3 rebounds per game as a senior. Gordon has also played with USA Basketball as a member of the United States' U-17 championship team.

DePaul’s 2019 recruiting class is currently ranked No. 22 at ESPN, No. 24 by 247 Sports, and No. 28 in the nation by Rivals.

So far, Saint Louis has 3 commitments from the HS Class of 2019 who are presently ranked #297, #332, and #389 by 247 Sports.

[prebilliken]

Couple of things here from a Billiken alum and fan:

1) The Billiken is the best mascot in sports. Its not up for debate.

2) Dayton? DAYTON??? Yeah, X is never going to let Dayton in. Plus you really add to the league by capturing that media market that you already have a stake in. Also, while Mark Schmidt is pound for pound the best basketball coach in the Country, St. Bonaventure adds less than nothing. You want that massive market in Olean, NY? Or the dedicated following that a student body of <2,000 gives you?

3) While SLU has been painfully inconsistent, mostly because of the Crews era, the program has netted 4 NCAA appearances, 2 regular season conference championships, and 2 conference tournament championships over the span of ten years. Inconsistent? Sure. Absent? No.

4) We have a massively involved and dedicated fan base, sure, attendance was down in the years that Crews let it go off the rails, it was up this year, and should keep trending up. And as I've stated before, we have large fan bases in most BE cities, including and especially New York. Our attendance was up again this year, as expected. The school has spent $100K today getting students out to San Jose to be at the game. And while its not the job of the conference to boost the program, you honestly don't think more people are going to show up to see a weeknight game against Marquette rather than LaSalle? C'mon.

5) SLU likely won't take a step back next year as Jordan Goodwin and Hashan French return, plus they add three highly touted recruits and a JC transfer who is eligible immediately.

6) This board lives in this delusional world where UConn, Syracuse, BC, and Notre Dame are all going to put football on the back burner and join the Big East again. OR Gonzaga, which is as far away as a school can be from anything called "East" and seems to have no issues running a basketball program outside of the Big East, decides to travel across 2, or sometimes 3, time zones to join the league. IF and WHEN the Big East expands because the domino effect of conference realignment force it to, or Fox demands it has to, SLU is your best and only option. Its the largest media market, geographically within the conference boundaries, the best institutional fit by a long shot, has an up and coming (albeit sometimes painfully inconsistent) basketball program that has phenomenal facilities, and a fan base located in every major Big East market.

[kayako]

5) This board lives in this delusional world where UConn, Syracuse, BC, and Notre Dame are all going to put football on the back burner and join the Big East again. .

They were just having fun with that list, none of us are that delusional. But I do think uconn eventually comes back. Good luck against the Hokies!

[pki1998]

The Billiken is the best mascot in sports. Its not up for debate.

Sorry you lost me with your first point, everyone knows the Blue Blob is the best mascot. If you don't believe me ask Jim Kelly

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bBxrrRbCJU0


After watching the below video, I've changed my mind about SLU clearly they need to be added now.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQXYEaSb ... Zm&index=1

[cu blujs]

The board isn't delusional. A few posters on the board are delusional.

Personally, SLU is my first choice. A lot of people around here were worried SLU would get in ahead of Creighton. Fortunately for us, you were in a down cycle at that time, and apparently we had better connections to existing BE powers that be in Fr. Lannon. Awesome school and great alum/fans, and easy to get to from Omaha. On the right day, flights are cheap enough to justify a quick roundtrip just to catch a game.

[muskienick]

I don't think anybody on this site is totally sold on a 20-game Conference season per se. I think what we ARE sold on is the Round Robin that an 11-team Conference season would allow that a 12-team Conference season would not. A more consistently good St. Louis Bills program would fit the bill. But most of us would prefer that our 11th member would be a more established program of excellence be added (UConn or Gonzaga). Each of those two have their negatives: UConn being a public institution and Gonzaga with its geography. All that being said, a consistently good St. Louis program would likely be considered by many of our posters to be the next best thing for the Big East.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

Couple of things here from a Billiken alum and fan:

2a) X is never going to let Dayton in.

2b) Plus you really add to the league by capturing that media market that you already have a stake in.

3) While SLU has been painfully inconsistent …

4a) We have a massively involved and dedicated fan base …

4b) SLU added three highly-touted recruits …

5a) It’s the largest media market, geographically within the conference boundaries …

2a) – Please see: Do Dayton and Xavier still compete for high school students as 'customers' ? (originally posted on September 7, 2017).

2b) – Please see: Exploding the "Southwest Ohio College Basketball TV Market" Myth. (originally posted on September 7, 2017).

3) – A five-year average RPI/NET Ranking of #194 is not ‘painfully inconsistent’. It is embarrassing.

4a) – In a city of 2,800,000 people, in a season when the Billikens were predicted to win the Atlantic 10 Championship (and did), the Billikens still averaged fewer than 7,000 fans per game (and more than 3,500 empty seats per game). The Billikens will always be second to the Missouri Tigers in the St. Louis college sports TV market. It is quite probable that the apathy shown towards Billikens basketball at the Chaifetz Arena turnstiles is reflected in the viewership of Billikens basketball on TV.

4b) – A trio of 2019 commitment who are presently ranked #297, #332, and #389 would not fit anyone’s definition of “three highly-touted recruits”.

5a) – St. Louis never has been and never will be a ‘college basketball’ city. The size of the media market is of little consequence when the market has little interest in college basketball in general, and little interest in the Saint Louis Billikens in particular.

[stever20]

I don't think anybody on this site is totally sold on a 20-game Conference season per se. I think what we ARE sold on is the Round Robin that an 11-team Conference season would allow that a 12-team Conference season would not. A more consistently good St. Louis Bills program would fit the bill. But most of us would prefer that our 11th member would be a more established program of excellence be added (UConn or Gonzaga). Each of those two have their negatives: UConn being a public institution and Gonzaga with its geography. All that being said, a consistently good St. Louis program would likely be considered by many of our posters to be the next best thing for the Big East.

I don't think everyone is totally sold on the Round Robin. Round Robins can totally supress the potential for getting teams in the tourney, and getting them in at high seeds......

Let's look at the data....
in 10 team conferences this year, 3rd place teams averaged geting 11.11 wins. In 12 team conferences, they averaged 12.60 wins. That's a huge difference. 3 of the 9 teams in 10 team conferences finished with 9 or 10 wins. Another 2 with only 11.
4th place- 10.22 for 10 teams, 11.80 for 12 teams.
5th place- 8.77 for 10 teams, 9.80 for 12 teams.
6th place- 8.11 for 10 teams, 9.00 for 12 teams.
7th place- 7.33 for 10 teams, 8.00 for 12 teams.
8th place- 6.56 for 10 teams, 7.60 for 12 teams.

So for every single seed, it's at least a 1 win difference.

For teams seeded 3 or 4- in 10 team conferences- those teams won 10 or fewer games 10 times(out of 18 chances). in 12 team conferences, that happened once.
For teams seeded 5-8- in 10 team conferences those teams won 10 games twice, and 9 games only 9 times. In 12 team conferences, had 1 11 win team, 5 10 win teams, and 4 9 win teams(out of 20 chances- so half the teams that finished 5-8 in the league won at least 9 games- amd it's 10 out of 15 for 5-7 finishes). It's also who is eliminated. In 10 team conferences you had 16 teams finishing with 7 or fewer wins. with 6 at 6 wins. For 12 team conferences, you had 3 teams with 7 or fewer wins, with 2 at 6.

[Hall2012]

Actually, especially with the lack of an NBA team - I could certainly see the elevation to high major status drawing more casual fans to SLU games - and it would certainly energize the more invested fan base. Does St. Louis have more Mizzou fans than SLU fans? Probably, but how many "basketball fans" are gonna choose to drive 2 hours to Columbia when they can see an equal quality product in their own backyard?