Future BE Member Saint Louis vs St. Bonny A-10 Championship

[Nildogg]

If you add St. Louis, does the average basketball fan, pundit, metrics guy, etc. think the Big East got stronger? I don't think so.
They probably do fit from a general profile standpoint, but I think basketball prominence is more important right now.

Agree about the cellar - we need 2 terrible teams every year to make sure the wins add up for everyone else. The parity hurt the conference this year for sure.

[pki1998]

Absent any pipe dreams coming available (UConn, Syracuse, BC, ND,etc) my preference would be to stay at ten. With that being said if Fox wants us to add a team or two it's in our best interest to keep our media partner happy. My preference would be to add an East coast team, the more teams in the midwest means more direct competition with the Big Ten. I would much rather be known as the east coast conference with some midwest outposts, then the other way around and risk looking like the Big Ten light.

From a purely basketball perspective VCU is probably the best option, I'm just not sure the powers that be are willing to go public with out getting UConn. I'm not saying that is the right awnser just my gut on what they are thinking. Other than VCU there are currently no viable options on the east coast. That leaves Dayton as the only currently legit private school canidate. Dayton is an institutional fit with a large fan base that owns their market. It's a small market but it's seems like everyone that lives there is a Flyer fan. They have basketball tradition and some recent success under Archie (now at IU), and because of their resources and fan support have the potential to be a much better program. They just never seem to live up that potential. Even though Dayton is the best private school canidate, I don't think adding them strengthens the perception of the Big East in the average college basketball fan's eyes.

After VCU and Dayton, there are some schools that should be on the radar as a possible expansion team if and when they have sustained basketball success. SLU is one of those schools and might be trending up but has a way to go before it would make sense to add them.

[adoraz]

Absent any pipe dreams coming available (UConn, Syracuse, BC, ND,etc) my preference would be to stay at ten. With that being said if Fox wants us to add a team or two it's in our best interest to keep our media partner happy. My preference would be to add an East coast team, the more teams in the midwest means more direct competition with the Big Ten. I would much rather be known as the east coast conference with some midwest outposts, then the other way around and risk looking like the Big Ten light.

From a purely basketball perspective VCU is probably the best option, I'm just not sure the powers that be are willing to go public with out getting UConn. I'm not saying that is the right awnser just my gut on what they are thinking. Other than VCU there are currently no viable options on the east coast. That leaves Dayton as the only currently legit private school canidate. Dayton is an institutional fit with a large fan base that owns their market. It's a small market but it's seems like everyone that lives there is a Flyer fan. They have basketball tradition and some recent success under Archie (now at IU), and because of their resources and fan support have the potential to be a much better program. They just never seem to live up that potential. Even though Dayton is the best private school canidate, I don't think adding them strengthens the perception of the Big East in the average college basketball fan's eyes.

After VCU and Dayton, there are some schools that should be on the radar as a possible expansion team if and when they have sustained basketball success. SLU is one of those schools and might be trending up but has a way to go before it would make sense to add them.

This is pretty much my exact position. Great post.

[billyjack]

I'm still big on adding Gonzaga. As a couple of posters noted, if we want to be the #1 conference, then add the Zags, the stud, the big dog.

Saint Louis i just can't get excited about. Dayton at least gives a shit about their program.

I'd rather have Northeastern than Saint Louis. Northeastern generally will do fine in non-conf, have an RPI around 100, knock off a P5 team here and there, and still be nice enough to go 3-17 in conference. And i'll be able to get to another road game, Boston is a destination city, geographic balance tips to the East, it busts BC's balls having a Big East team in the city, and their Matthews Gym is historic and 20 years older than Hinkle. Note that when Michigan State played them at Matthews two yrs ago they sold out the 6200 seats.

The following list after VCU is for fun... please don't scream about me mentioning Florida Atlantic, cuz it's meant to be light-hearted, since it's a low pressure week for us Friars fans as we prepare for a super NIT battle.

My value and enthusiasm on a scale of 1-100:
100 - Gonzaga.
100 - UConn without football.
99 - Syracuse but impossible.
95 - stay at 10 schools
78 - Notre Dame after bailing on ACC via a sneaky backroom deal.
74 - Notre Dame in a non-sneaky deal.
67 - Dayton.
35 - VCU.
8 - Northeastern.
6 - Saint Louis.
6 - Siena
5 - San Francisco.
4 - Holy Cross.
4 - St Bonaventure.
4 - Rhode Island but basically impossible.
4 - UMass.
3 - Iona.
3 - Boston University.
3 - Buffalo without football.
3 - Western Kentucky without football.
3 - Canisius.
3 - Richmond.
3 - Duquesne.
2 - Cleveland State.
2 - Detroit Mercy.
2 - Niagara.
2 - Drake.
2 - Quinnipiac.
2 - Vermont.
1 - Belmont.
1 - Davidson.
1 - Florida Atlantic
1 - St Mary's.
1 - Denver.
1 - BYU.
0 - Boston College without football and if they begged us.
0 - Pitt without football and if they begged us.
0 - West Va, etc.

[MUBoxer]

I'm still big on adding Gonzaga. As a couple of posters noted, if we want to be the #1 conference, then add the Zags, the stud, the big dog.

Saint Louis i just can't get excited about. Dayton at least gives a shit about their program.

I'd rather have Northeastern than Saint Louis. Northeastern generally will do fine in non-conf, have an RPI around 100, knock off a P5 team here and there, and still be nice enough to go 3-17 in conference. And i'll be able to get to another road game, Boston is a destination city, geographic balance tips to the East, it busts BC's balls having a Big East team in the city, and their Matthews Gym is historic and 20 years older than Hinkle. Note that when Michigan State played them at Matthews two yrs ago they sold out the 6200 seats.

The following list after VCU is for fun... please don't scream about me mentioning Florida Atlantic, cuz it's meant to be light-hearted, since it's a low pressure week for us Friars fans as we prepare for a super NIT battle.

My value and enthusiasm on a scale of 1-100:
100 - Gonzaga.
100 - UConn without football.
99 - Syracuse but impossible.
95 - stay at 10 schools
78 - Notre Dame after bailing on ACC via a sneaky backroom deal.
74 - Notre Dame in a non-sneaky deal.
67 - Dayton.
35 - VCU.
8 - Northeastern.
6 - Saint Louis.
6 - Siena
5 - San Francisco.
4 - Holy Cross.
4 - St Bonaventure.
4 - Rhode Island but basically impossible.
4 - UMass.
3 - Iona.
3 - Boston University.
3 - Buffalo without football.
3 - Western Kentucky without football.
3 - Canisius.
3 - Richmond.
3 - Duquesne.
2 - Cleveland State.
2 - Detroit Mercy.
2 - Niagara.
2 - Drake.
2 - Quinnipiac.
2 - Vermont.
1 - Belmont.
1 - Davidson.
1 - Florida Atlantic
1 - St Mary's.
1 - Denver.
1 - BYU.
0 - Boston College without football and if they begged us.
0 - Pitt without football and if they begged us.
0 - West Va, etc.

Personally I'd have Belmont, Davidson and BC a lot higher up BC and Davidson after Notre Dame. Belmont after SLU.

Davidson has a strong NBA base for marketing, and has remained successful as they jumped up to the A10. BC because I'd love another tier 1 university beside Georgetown in a big city. Is their football program sustainable? Belmont because they've shown commitment and staying power since 2004 (13 postseasons, 8 NCAA, 4 NIT, 1 CBI) despite only 23yrs D1, basically I see potential given the right platform and budget plus would love to have a foot in SEC territory.

As long as we're talking impossible ideas then let's get BC and ND to form a partnership of independent football and play a couple exhibitions against Butler, Georgetown and Villanova every year for publicity and park every other sport in the Big East. Then you even have the makings of a hockey conference with those two and PC

[gtmoBlue]

Well there you have it... Zags, SLU, and either NE or St Bonnie. A strong addition to the top and 2 to the bottom to boost the middle tier.
Excellent choices.

[GoldenWarrior11]

If we want to increase our future payouts (both in terms of tournament credits and television revenue), expansion, at some point, is a near-certainty. As the P5 all inch toward 20-conference games, maximizing their ability to get a plethora of tournament bids, the Big East essentially has to have an optimal season in order to get the right balance of numerous bids as well as high(er) seeds in order to have increased odds of deep tournament runs for the conference. We will eventually need to increase our content, exposure and markets that we currently hold in order to increase our presence and marketability of our member schools. Any concerns about adding a "bottom-feeder" to the league should be disregarded, IMO. Any member has the potential to, eventually, finish last in a given year. The whole point of expansion is for any potential member, even if they finish last, to still provide value to the league's membership (and to the network). For example, Rutgers provides immense value to the B1G - even though they are historically weak in football and men's basketball; they provided access to the NY/NY markets, which increased the payouts to all of the members via cable access, added a strong new recruiting area and provided a book-end (along with Maryland) to Penn State, creating an Eastern-hub for the conference content.

The league made a methodical and conscious decision not to add any public institutions when we reformed in 2013. That means candidates like VCU, UMass, Buffalo, Rhode Island and Wichita State all were/are incredibly unlikely additions. It also intentionally avoided any institution with FBS Football, so that means no Syracuse/BC/WVU pipe dreams. I also think it is time to officially let the UConn ship set sail. While there was a window for mutual interest these past few years, it very much appears they will be committed to football (even given the substantial budget deficits) for the long-haul. The Big East also made the deliberate choice to only start with ten members, and not twelve, like what was widely rumored (IMO, because the C7 - lead by the Eastern block - did not want to immediately dilute the Big East brand with an entire block of A10 schools, which was a perception issue that the AAC faced with C-USA). Butler, Creighton and Xavier have all immensely provided tremendous value to the league's membership, and have elevated their resources with men's basketball thanks to the increased revenue from our television deal and heightened interest being in an elevated conference. They each have been "fully assimilated" to the Big East, thus any lingering effects of adding an A10 program should be disregarded, IMO.

Dayton would also be a strong candidate for expansion to the Big East - but I get the proximity issue for Xavier. If Georgetown was able to pull strings to prevent an invitation/any interest for Richmond, then I have little doubt that Xavier would want a potential threat to their territory in Dayton. Unless Xavier gives them a green-light, I can envision them never receiving enough votes to be pushed through.

Again, it comes back to Saint Louis. St. Louis is the #21 media market, without an NFL team, in a strong recruiting area. The school is a top-100 national university, with a strong enrollment (would be fourth largest in the BE), an incredibly strong endowment (would be only behind Georgetown) and has strong alumni numbers in Chicago, New York City, Philadelphia, Cincinnati and Washington D.C. They have a 10,600-seat arena, which gets strong attendance figures when they A) play good teams and/or B) when the team is competitive. You also add a travel companion for Creighton, DePaul and Marquette. Coming off an A10 Championship, and an NCAA Tournament appearance (4th this decade), I think the Big East would acquire a ton of value in advance of our next TV deal with Fox. For Fox, there is really no disadvantage to approve such an addition, since any addition would be given a pro-rated portion of the 12-year, $500 million, deal we originally signed for (coming out to under $5 million per year until 2025).

[billyjack]

Good post Warrior. Though i'm not ready for Saint Louis (yet), i understand what you're saying.

[stever20]

how did 20 conference games help the Big Ten this year? Iniana was 9-2, but because they had 20 conference games, they're stuck at 17-15 and NIT.

Until the committee shows a willingness to start taking those 17-15, 18-15 type of teams- i think 20 conference games is a HUGE mistake.

[GoldenWarrior11]

how did 20 conference games help the Big Ten this year? Iniana was 9-2, but because they had 20 conference games, they're stuck at 17-15 and NIT.

Until the committee shows a willingness to start taking those 17-15, 18-15 type of teams- i think 20 conference games is a HUGE mistake.

A good observation, Stever. Frankly, I don't think there is enough data to definitively argue whether a 20-game schedule is beneficial or not to conferences yet. Ultimately, it *could* come down to how smart teams can schedule OOC (but with tournaments/challenges/rivalries, it doesn't leave a whole lot of wiggle room). That obviously didn't help Indiana this year, but they should never lose to Nebraska, Northwestern or Rutgers - ever. The conference schedule didn't prevent Indiana from getting a tournament bid; it's own play did. Additionally, the B1G got eight bids this year - the most it has had with its current configuration (and that was with Indiana being down). One could argue that its 20-game schedule was actually beneficial to the conference.