Big East vs. Other Power Conferences

[Michael in Raleigh]

All that to say thatif the Big East is to be compared to "other power conferences," it should be measured against the Pac-12, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, ACC, and AAC. No one should assume the AAC won't stack up well with power leagues as measured by RPI, total NCAA tournament wins per team per year, percentage of teams to make the NCAA tournament per year, non-conference winning percentage, or any other measure.

Redmen9194, if you're going to be an objective analysis, you can't assume Big East superiority over the AAC (or SEC or Pac-12 superiority over the AAC, either).

Now, I do think it's safe to assume the Power 7 (P12, B12, B1G, SEC, ACC, AAC, and BE) will exert themselves as stronger than the WCC, A-10, MVC, and other mid-major leagues in given year. The MW is in somewhat of a gray area. It's hard to imagine a national championship contender out of that league (i.e., I wouldn't put any MW teams on the same caliber as AAC powers UConn or Memphis, or Big East powers Georgetown or Villanova), but there's definitely enough depth in the MW for it to compare favorably, at least in some years, with some of the Power 7 leagues.

Anyway, that's cool that you're doing this comparison. Keep us posted on the data you find!

[BillikensWin]

Really, mid-major?

[redmen9194]

I am absolutely including the AAC. At this point there are what the media is calling the Power 7 in basketball. They are the Big East, ACC, Big Ten, SEC, Big XII, Pac-12 and the American. Those are the leagues we need to measure up to. In seasons past, I only kept track of the Big East vs. the power conferences in hoops. I am adding a few other sports to the mix for this year. Should be good. And the Butler Women's soccer team will be the first Big East school in action as they take on Louisville today to start our new conference off.

[Bill Marsh]

The thread should read Big East vs Other Power Conferences

I assume you mean Big 10, ACC, Big 12, SEC, PAC 12. I wouldn't include AAC.

With defending national champion Louisville in the mix, as well as UConn, Memphis, Cincinnati, and Temple, the AAC will definitely be a power conference this year. That lineup, even when also including the other five relatively weak schools, would have been a stronger league last year than the SEC. It won't be surprising if the league is stronger than another power conference this coming year as well.

Even after Louisville and Rutgers leave, replaced with ECU, Tulane, and Tulsa, it's still a power conference. UConn is tied for sixth all time in national championships. Memphis has twice made it to the championship game, including one they came within a Mario Chalmers-buzzer beater of winning just five years ago. Cincinnati has won a NC and is in the top 25 more often than not. Temple is a reliable NCAA tournament participant, which is more than can be said of many, many power conference programs. The other schools need to step it up, but I think Houston, SMU, UCF, and USF at least are willing to put the financial investment to meet the challenge. How that plays out on the court remains to be seen.

Fair or not, conferences tend to be evaluated by how strong they are in their top 25 to 50%. The SEC is never questioned as a power league because of Kentucky, Florida, and the one or two other teams that are in the top 25 at the end of a given year. The remaining members who doddle in the NIT, CIT, or CBI tournaments, or worse yet, have losing records, don't harm the SEC's status as a power league because of strength at the top. Similar things can be said of the Pac-12 and even the ACC in recent years.

Heck, as an example of how much it matters for a league to be strong at the top, just look at Conference USA. Who besides Memphis has been any good in the last ten years? UAB, maybe 8 years ago? Yet C-USA has been consistently tabbed as one of the top mid-major leagues, ranking behind the MW and A-10 but on par with the MVC and WCC.

Couldn't disagree more strongly and UConn is one of my teams. The AAC is simply not in the same class as the Big East.

I'll give you this year with Louisville in the mix, but after this year this will simply be an awful basketball league except for UConn. With respect to your specific points extablishing the bona fides for this new league:

1. Memphis has made it twice to the championship game. True enough. But the first time was 40 years ago and is hardly relevant today. The second time was vacated because they used an ineligible player, Derrick Rose. So, I'll count Memphis as a national championship contender every time they get to use an ineligible player, but I don't think that will be very often.

2. Cincinnati was a national championship program 50 years ago and they have made it to the Final Four only once in the 50 years since. That was during the Bobby Huggins' era and he's now long gone. They missed the tournament for 5 straight years after that. Cronin has finally managed to get them back to the tournament the last 3 years, but they didn't do any damage in those 3 appearances and they are simply not the same program they were under Huggins.

3. Temple has been a reliable tournament team in recent years but they've also been a reliable early exit. While it's true that they've gotten to the tournament for 6 consecutive years, they also missed the tournament for 6 straight years before that. So, are they a consistent tournament team? 50/50 over the past dozen years. Not much coming back this year. This is another program that established its program based on the results of a legendary coach who took the to the Elite 8 5 times in a little over a dozen years. But that ended a dozen years ago and John Chaney is long gone from this program. They have not been back on the same level since.

As you so accurately point out, it remains to be seen what Houston, SMU, UCF, and USF can accomplish even with an upgraded financial investment. I'll start to pay attention once they've actually shown me something, but not based on hopes, dreams, and schemes. Let's not forget that all of these schools are also trying to make big time investments in football as well. Just where are they going to get all the money required for both sports? Certainly not from that joke of a TV contract they've come up with. This bunch has all foolishly committed to being football-first schools. It's just not happening for them. Meanwhile they are ignoring basketball where they actually could have an opportunity to make a name for themselves.

Comparing the AAC to the SEC is a joke. Kentucky is a legendary program and Florida has been one of the best programs in the country over the past 20 years. Saying that they also have one or two other teams in the top 20 at the end of the year is saying a lot. How many conferences place 4 teams in the top 20 at the end of any given season. But let's look further. Over the past 20 years, the SEC has also produced a national championship program at Arkansas, and Final Four programs at Mississippi State and LSU, which was LSU's 4th final Four in school history. We've also seen Tennessee and Vanderbilt both go to the Elite 8 within the past decade while they've added Missouri, an elite 8 team just 5 years ago. This is a very deep conference, which once didn't take basketball seriously but that has changed in the past 30 years. To compare the flotsam and jetsam of the AAC to the SEC, a true basketball power conference, is so far off the mark that it boggles the mind how anyone could look at the likes of ECU, Tulane, and the rest of the bottom feeders in this league and think of them in the same sentence as the SEC.

[Bill Marsh]

I am absolutely including the AAC. At this point there are what the media is calling the Power 7 in basketball. They are the Big East, ACC, Big Ten, SEC, Big XII, Pac-12 and the American. Those are the leagues we need to measure up to. In seasons past, I only kept track of the Big East vs. the power conferences in hoops. I am adding a few other sports to the mix for this year. Should be good. And the Butler Women's soccer team will be the first Big East school in action as they take on Louisville today to start our new conference off.

As a UConn fan, I'm happy to see you keep the AAC in your comparisons. But they belong there only for nostalgic reasons as regards UConn, Cincinnati, and USF. And that nostalgia will fade pretty quickly.

Anyone in the media who is calling it a Power 7 is showing their lack of knowledge of college basketball. Just because UConn is there and to a lesser extent Memphis, that doesn't justify calling the league a power conference. If that's the case, maybe we should start called the WCC a power conference because Gonzaga is always strong, so is BYU, St. Mary's has had some tournament success recently, and San Francisco won a couple of national championships 60 years ago. Why not call the Mountain west a power conference? UNLV has a national title within the past 25 years and is always in the tournament, Wyoming once won a national championship, and New Mexico & San Diego State have been pretty successful lately.

While I wish it weren't so, the AAC is nowhere close to being a power basketball league right now.

[redmen9194]

I think for this season, the AAC is one of the power conferences for basketball. You have two of the last three national champions and three other solid programs. Next year might be a different story. The Big East is better than the AAC, SEC and Pac-12. It is probably also better than the Big XII.