Which BEast programs NEED to succeed

[aughnanure]

GT and Marquette NEED to succeed. They're our best programs both at this point in time and historically. Sorry, but none of the rest of us are at that level on both counts.

As for my Bluejays, I understand concerns about whether our recruiting can catch up, but we will NOT be a bottom feeder after Doug leaves. This is a program that has always found a way to win but has lacked a platform to get to the highest level. Spoiled fans don't allow a program to sink, unless their school's administration doesn't care about athletics. Ours administration does, a lot more than some of the other schools in the league. And our fans are spoiled. Very. Dana Altman is a hell of a coach, and a sizable contingent of our fan base thought he was mailing it in the last few years.

Which schools in the Big East care less about winning than Creighton?

I think my brethren Jays fan, Wizard, would probably admit he got a little carried away by his excitement and enthusiasm in that comment.

Back to the original question in this thread and the context of the Creighton needing succeed:

1. First, I must confess that for me all sports are local or at least local to my conference. So I don't know Jack really about east coast basketball and what we're really getting into. I know we have to step it up but I don't really know how much are what this really means.

2. However, I do believe that the CU athletic administration has a much better handle on what this opportunity means. And what this challenge will entail. It may or may not come right away, but this administration is committed to getting there. It is a challenge we welcome and have been looking for. I have to surmise this is part of what the Catholic 7 were looking at when they decided to go with Creighton. They saw not only the potential but the commitment we have to reach that potential.

3. Creighton is a pretty damn cool place. Not the only gem in the Big East but a gem nonetheless. I think there is a pretty unified goal here on campus and around the Omaha community that we're going to do our damnedest to make this new conference proud of their westernmost member.

I saw earlier on this or another thread someone say that facilities don't matter that much for recruiting. I would just add my opinion that for a place like Creighton or UNL down the road here in Nebraska (sorry Creighton only fans, I am one of those, I support both schools but the Blue one reigns supreme in my Basketball heart) we don't necessarily have a lot of the other front of mind, obvious attractions. We have no beaches or mountains. We have four seasons so you might have to wear a jacket on campus some days. We are not a mega metropolitan area that recruits instantly recognize and appreciate. Thus, in my opinion, for us, one way to get recruits who might not otherwise give us an honest look, is to really try to go the extra mile in facilities. Wow the recruit there. Let the recruit see the commitment there. Then perhaps they look at the other things we offer where we excel that might not have been front of mind for them at first. So for schools and communities like us, I think facilities matter very much. Without them, we don't have the basic ante on the table to get a recruit and his / her family to seriously consider us. --That's my theory anyway.

That was me, and good counterpoint. I'll just add that a lot of the midwestern teams could view their city much in the same way. Milwaukee doesn't have beaches or mountains either. We're not some "mega metropolitan." I don;t think MKE screams "recognize" from recruits. Hell, Jimmy Butler never even knew where Marquette was until after he committed and came to Milwaukee. Some pro sports, but that's really the difference.

My point on facilities is that everyone has them now. Most all have a recently built new "state-of-the-art" basketball facility (funny how everyone also has a "state of the art"/"cutting edge" facility). There's only so much you can do with one sport. Only so many things you can do with facilities. Creighton seems to have more room to build (something hard for all urban schools to find). So I see this is an advantage that will probably matter more in the other sports where Creighton can really differentiate itself from the other schools that may not have such soccer, baseball, etc facilities. (By the way, is there any movement for Creighton to add Lacrosse?).

Also, everywhere in the Big East has 4 seasons. Come on. I'm from KC, and yes the weather shifts are more dramatic, but its not that different.

[Bluejay]

GT and Marquette NEED to succeed. They're our best programs both at this point in time and historically. Sorry, but none of the rest of us are at that level on both counts.

As for my Bluejays, I understand concerns about whether our recruiting can catch up, but we will NOT be a bottom feeder after Doug leaves. This is a program that has always found a way to win but has lacked a platform to get to the highest level. Spoiled fans don't allow a program to sink, unless their school's administration doesn't care about athletics. Ours administration does, a lot more than some of the other schools in the league. And our fans are spoiled. Very. Dana Altman is a hell of a coach, and a sizable contingent of our fan base thought he was mailing it in the last few years.

Which schools in the Big East care less about winning than Creighton?

I can understand why it may have come across that way, but I don't think he quite meant it like that.

I suspect he was referring to the schoo'ls patience with ineffective coaches. It wasn't too long ago that Creighton canned the men's basketball coach after only three years because of ineptitude. Making a decision of that caliber in only three years is a bit rare, especially for what was a mid major school.

I wouldn't ever go so far as to say that Creighton cares more than anyone else in the conference or that Creighton will do whatever it takes while other schools in the conference won't. What I do feel confident in saying is that Creighton will always do everything it can to succeed.

[Bluejay]

(By the way, is there any movement for Creighton to add Lacrosse?).

Not yet. Frankly, I suspect that adding sports is probably a few years off (if it even happens) as Creighton takes some time to determine the landscape of the new conference. The school has also come off of a pretty significant athletic facilities building boom (new arena for women's hoops and volleyball, new athletic training center and the current basketball practice facility and soccer stadium renovations), so adding new facilites to house a new sport probably won't come for awhile.

I will say that Lacrosse is picking up some momentum in Omaha. There are now several high schools with club teams (primarily the private schools and some of the public schools in the more affluent areas). If lacrosee became a sanctioned sport at the high school level, it's popularity should continue to grow in the area. Right now however, I'd suggest that many in the area don't know much about lacrosse at all and certainly couldn't explain the rules or talk about lacrosse strategy. I do know that there are some adult lacrosse leagues in Omaha, which are predominantly populated by immigrants from India and other countries where lacrosse has a bigger profile.

One other thing that could hamper lacrosse's growth in this area is that Nebraska really produces a lot of baseball talent and it is extremely popular at the high school and lower levels. For lacrosse to break thru, it would require attracting enough athletic kids away from football, basketball, baseball and even soccer. It could happen eventually, but I think we are pretty far from it right now.

[Jet915]

(By the way, is there any movement for Creighton to add Lacrosse?).

Not yet. Frankly, I suspect that adding sports is probably a few years off (if it even happens) as Creighton takes some time to determine the landscape of the new conference. The school has also come off of a pretty significant athletic facilities building boom (new arena for women's hoops and volleyball, new athletic training center and the current basketball practice facility and soccer stadium renovations), so adding new facilites to house a new sport probably won't come for awhile.

I will say that Lacrosse is picking up some momentum in Omaha. There are now several high schools with club teams (primarily the private schools and some of the public schools in the more affluent areas). If lacrosee became a sanctioned sport at the high school level, it's popularity should continue to grow in the area. Right now however, I'd suggest that many in the area don't know much about lacrosse at all and certainly couldn't explain the rules or talk about lacrosse strategy. I do know that there are some adult lacrosse leagues in Omaha, which are predominantly populated by immigrants from India and other countries where lacrosse has a bigger profile.

One other thing that could hamper lacrosse's growth in this area is that Nebraska really produces a lot of baseball talent and it is extremely popular at the high school and lower levels. For lacrosse to break thru, it would require attracting enough athletic kids away from football, basketball, baseball and even soccer. It could happen eventually, but I think we are pretty far from it right now.

I'm assuming if Creighton ever got Lacrosse, they could play it at Morrison Stadium. I don't watch Lacrosse but I would think they are similar field dimensions. I agree though, probably be a few years atleast until Creighton added a sport like Lacrosse. If they thought it was revenue neutral, they would probably add it but it would also mean adding something for Women's (field hockey?) which would be a money loser.

[Omahanian]

That was me, and good counterpoint. I'll just add that a lot of the midwestern teams could view their city much in the same way. Milwaukee doesn't have beaches or mountains either. We're not some "mega metropolitan." I don;t think MKE screams "recognize" from recruits. Hell, Jimmy Butler never even knew where Marquette was until after he committed and came to Milwaukee. Some pro sports, but that's really the difference.

My point on facilities is that everyone has them now. Most all have a recently built new "state-of-the-art" basketball facility (funny how everyone also has a "state of the art"/"cutting edge" facility). There's only so much you can do with one sport. Only so many things you can do with facilities. Creighton seems to have more room to build (something hard for all urban schools to find). So I see this is an advantage that will probably matter more in the other sports where Creighton can really differentiate itself from the other schools that may not have such soccer, baseball, etc facilities. (By the way, is there any movement for Creighton to add Lacrosse?).

Also, everywhere in the Big East has 4 seasons. Come on. I'm from KC, and yes the weather shifts are more dramatic, but its not that different.

I hope I didn't come across as trying to refute your original post. I was just trying to add another perspective or viewpoint. None of these issues are absolutes. One thing I will add to the discussion again though is that I think four seasons didn't matter for Creighton in the MVC. And you're obviously right that the Big East cities are all four season cities too. But for the first time, to a large degree, Creighton is now competing not just with other MVC schools and now Big East schools on a regional basis. To compete on this level, it must now compete regularly for recruits who are being sought after nationwide and this means competing with sunbelt schools and not just those in our conference.

It's an interesting and exciting time of transition for our little school on the Hilltop.

Appreciate your insights as well.

[Bill Marsh]

GT and Marquette NEED to succeed. They're our best programs both at this point in time and historically. Sorry, but none of the rest of us are at that level on both counts.

As for my Bluejays, I understand concerns about whether our recruiting can catch up, but we will NOT be a bottom feeder after Doug leaves. This is a program that has always found a way to win but has lacked a platform to get to the highest level. Spoiled fans don't allow a program to sink, unless their school's administration doesn't care about athletics. Ours administration does, a lot more than some of the other schools in the league. And our fans are spoiled. Very. Dana Altman is a hell of a coach, and a sizable contingent of our fan base thought he was mailing it in the last few years.

Which schools in the Big East care less about winning than Creighton?

I can understand why it may have come across that way, but I don't think he quite meant it like that.

I suspect he was referring to the schoo'ls patience with ineffective coaches. It wasn't too long ago that Creighton canned the men's basketball coach after only three years because of ineptitude. Making a decision of that caliber in only three years is a bit rare, especially for what was a mid major school.

I wouldn't ever go so far as to say that Creighton cares more than anyone else in the conference or that Creighton will do whatever it takes while other schools in the conference won't. What I do feel confident in saying is that Creighton will always do everything it can to succeed.

Good point. I think that high expectations and demanding success are the hallmarks of all successful programs at every level. As much as fans around the country hate the Yankees for their big spending and stocking up on free agents, they succeed because they and their fans have always demanded success and have been unwilling to settle for anything else. Same thing for other top pro franchises like the Cowboys and the Lakers.

I must admit that I'm a fan of patience when it comes to college coaches, that is if the coach has the right stuff and is a good mentor for student athletes.. First of all mentoring the kids is more important to me than winning. This is after all supposed to be part of an educational program. Secondly, coaches take time to develop their skills just as players do. Although it was a different era, the fact is that John Wooden didn't get UCLA to its first Final Four until his 14th season of coaching there. In fact he got them to only 2 tournaments in his first 7 years and 3 in his first 13 years. (note the fact that only conference champs went to the tournament in those days, but still . . .) Can you imagine a major program keeping a coach with a record like that in this day and age? At the end of the 1961 season, UCLA had missed the tournament for 5 straight years and had gotten there only once in the previous 9 years. Had UCLA chosen to fire him and replace him with another coach at that point, no one would have blamed them. But look what they would have missed out on.

[Muskie]

I think it is imperative (especially with the changing landscape of Football) that all of these programs succeed at some level. Since not everyone can win the Conference, that means getting in as many teams to the Tournament and getting those teams into Elite 8's, Final 4's, and Championship Banners. For the non-basketball sports, fielding the best conference sports we can.

[JOPO]

I think it is imperative (especially with the changing landscape of Football) that all of these programs succeed at some level. Since not everyone can win the Conference, that means getting in as many teams to the Tournament and getting those teams into Elite 8's, Final 4's, and Championship Banners. For the non-basketball sports, fielding the best conference sports we can.

Everyone needs to schedule strong OOC match-ups and pound the crap out of them!

[BillikensWin]

I think it is imperative (especially with the changing landscape of Football) that all of these programs succeed at some level. Since not everyone can win the Conference, that means getting in as many teams to the Tournament and getting those teams into Elite 8's, Final 4's, and Championship Banners. For the non-basketball sports, fielding the best conference sports we can.

Everyone needs to schedule strong OOC match-ups and pound the crap out of them!

I think you just won the internets.

[Bill Marsh]

Good topic and agree with points already made. My hope is none of the schools have long runs being at the bottom of the league standings (not at the expense of my Musketeers of course . I wonder how the conference will do at MSG in this initial season? Xavier fans generally travel well. I would think Villanova with a strong team and close proximity will be well represented. Also believe NYC area will supply numbers with there being so many hard core college basketball fans in the metro area? Does Marquette usually bring a large contingent for the tournament? How about Georgetown? I know Creighton fans pack the house in Omaha. Should we expect lots of Blue Jay fans? Would love to hear from the long time BE fans on what you expect.

NY is a big events city. Regardless of how well any of these teams travel, big events like the Big East tournament always sell well in the city. Thirty-five years ago the BE tournament replaced the NIT as the Big apple's "must see" big event in March. College basketball fans of al stripes will still buy tickets to the tournament. At least as long as the new BE continues to feature top teams. The other factor that will boost ticket fans is regardless of how well any of these schools travel is that all 5 of the East Coast schools have tons of alumni in the try-state area. The schools themselves don't have to "travel" well; they just need their local alumni to turn out, which I expect they will. Even the Midwest schools have a fair number of students and slums in the NYC area.