Big East Conference Realignment v2018

[Xudash]

Nova up 18 to go on CBS in front of what appears to be a sold out house at MSG.

Between what I'm watching now and what I watched last night with the Marquette game, it makes me think that we sometimes don't appreciate how well positioned the BE is as a conference.

This isn't even about adding UCONN, though today's optics make that idea appear compelling.

It's about today's optics combined with that remarkable scene in Milwaukee last night.

Will we HAVE TO expand or will we expand because we WANT TO expand?

We don't have to do it as of today.

[gtmoBlue]

Xudash - Thank God we don't NEED to deal with this now or for a while. IF and when we do have to deal with it, we can only hope that it will be about making a pro-active, mutually beneficial addition versus plucking one of the best-of-the-rest in order to backfill for defensive reasons.

The BEST time(s) to make a pro-active, mutually beneficial addition is times like now...when we are operating from a position of strength and don't NEED to!

[Xudash]

Xudash - Thank God we don't NEED to deal with this now or for a while. IF and when we do have to deal with it, we can only hope that it will be about making a pro-active, mutually beneficial addition versus plucking one of the best-of-the-rest in order to backfill for defensive reasons.

The BEST time(s) to make a pro-active, mutually beneficial addition is times like now...when we are operating from a position of strength and don't NEED to!

I don't disagree with your statement gtmo. It is always a fundamentally sound strategic moves to do that.

The simple question is what constitutes a proactive, mutually beneficial decision now: what team delivers on that promise?

[_lh]

The Big is perfect with 10 teams. There is no need to expand unless UCONN, Notre Dame or Kansas become available. The other "options" all have major warts and would join the BE at anytime.

I think we need to strike while the iron is hot. The Big East currently is regarded as a high-major conference without debate. But I think that is a mix respect for the legacy programs like (Marquette and Georgetown) plus acknowledged success of the new programs. Eventually the respect for Marquette and Georgetown will dissipate if they maintain their current trajectory. At that point, the Big East will be known as Nova, Xavier, Creighton and Butler.

I guess my point is, rather than try and revive the OBE teams we should focus on lifting up programs in their place. I have much more faith in UD, WSU and VCU to help the conference than I do in Georgetown or Marquette at this point. Georgetown and Marquette's brands are helping us, but that will only help so long. Eventually, new reputations are formed. 10 years ago, every C7 school would've scoffed at Butler, now they are getting beaten by them on the regular.

The C7 got it right in adding Creighton, Butler and Xavier. It is time to get it right again while the iron is hot.

I think the biggest take away from your above comment is that everyone, and I mean everyone associated with the Big East is glad you are not in charge of jack squat. Strike while the iron is hot? Please. The schools currently available will always come when called. No reason to expand for any of them in the near future or distant future for that matter.

Marquette for example is way, way better than UD. They pretty much always have been and always will be. Comparing them is laughable and I believe you now to be a closet UD fan. Marquette has a much better chance of being a top tier college basketball program in the next 5 years than UD does. Time will tell with Georgetown but I'd much rather XU be in a league with Georgetown than a proven mid major like UD. UD has had two good seasons in the last 15 years and one was a major fluke aided by NCAA Tournament home games.

I'm sure glad the BE doesn't follow the thinking of Dude. What a great example of patience by the league to stay at a perfect 10 until a dream scenario (UCONN returning) becomes a viable option.

Can we now put to bed anyone suggesting the BE add in the likes of VCU, UD or WSU? We can stay at 11 for 20 years or more. If the B12 collapses and Kansas needs a league, go get them. If ND is booted out of the ACC, go get them. Neither is likely to happen but there is no reason to fill in spot number 12 with any program not named Kansas or ND.

[Bogg]

Can we now put to bed anyone suggesting the BE add in the likes of VCU, UD or WSU? We can stay at 11 for 20 years or more. If the B12 collapses and Kansas needs a league, go get them. If ND is booted out of the ACC, go get them. Neither is likely to happen but there is no reason to fill in spot number 12 with any program not named Kansas or ND.

Well, I would argue that there's more than just Kansas who would be worth a look, but yeah - the move for the Big East now is to just happily sit tight until the new contract negotiations roll around and you wait to see if anything happens with the Big 12 situation. Not saying the Big East is necessarily going to make an add at that time, but that's the next round for a potentially attractive school to shake loose.

[DeltaV]

Can we now put to bed anyone suggesting the BE add in the likes of VCU, UD or WSU? We can stay at 11 for 20 years or more. If the B12 collapses and Kansas needs a league, go get them. If ND is booted out of the ACC, go get them. Neither is likely to happen but there is no reason to fill in spot number 12 with any program not named Kansas or ND.

Well, I would argue that there's more than just Kansas who would be worth a look, but yeah - the move for the Big East now is to just happily sit tight until the new contract negotiations roll around and you wait to see if anything happens with the Big 12 situation. Not saying the Big East is necessarily going to make an add at that time, but that's the next round for a potentially attractive school to shake loose.

No Big 12 school is going to give up FBS football. Full stop, put down the crack pipe.

If the Big 12 disintegrates, they'll just merge with whatever AAC schools they want in the region. And honestly, it probably wouldn't be that bad of a conference: you'd end up with something like:

Kansas
I State
K State
Ok State
Baylor
TCU
WVU
SMU
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
And someone like UCF (if they're around), Tulsa, or Tulane (pump up the academic cred).

I think you could still make an argument that the new 'Big 12' is still a major conference; probably better than the Pac 12 at least. It's good geographically, has good name recognition (especially with recent success by Houston, a rising Memphis, and a traditionally ok to good Cincinnati), and still hits enough regions to be relevant to TV.

The real looser to this would probably be Temple, who would get stuck somewhere like Conference USA (if they'd take them) or the A10 again, and playing independent football with UConn and UMass.

[Bogg]

No Big 12 school is going to give up FBS football. Full stop, put down the crack pipe.

Reading comprehension. Never said anyone was going to give up football - that 2025ish window of time is when the next round of instability is potentially going to happen. If somebody unexpectedly becomes available, be it through a football-only invite somewhere, a Big 12 apocalypse so bad that one of the remaining members chooses to go Indy rather than being seen to backslide into the AAC almost by themselves (basically the BYU scenario), or something else unforeseen right now that's almost certainly the period of time in which it will happen. Better to stay flexibile enough to respond in any way the conference wishes than to lock yourself into the currently-available teams that aren't going anywhere.

[DeltaV]

No Big 12 school is going to give up FBS football. Full stop, put down the crack pipe.

Reading comprehension. Never said anyone was going to give up football - that 2025ish window of time is when the next round of instability is potentially going to happen. If somebody unexpectedly becomes available, be it through a football-only invite somewhere, a Big 12 apocalypse so bad that one of the remaining members chooses to go Indy rather than being seen to backslide into the AAC almost by themselves (basically the BYU scenario), or something else unforeseen right now that's almost certainly the period of time in which it will happen. Better to stay flexibile enough to respond in any way the conference wishes than to lock yourself into the currently-available teams that aren't going anywhere.

Still, especially with rising AAC teams in the general footprint of the Big12, there wouldn't be a need for a Kansas to risk football independence to play basketball in a east-coast centered league. I've seen articles/comments saying that it's no longer about media markets for cable, but potential eyeballs for streaming, and Kansas (outside of a few smack downs by Nova) doesn't have history with Big East teams.

I still think we're saying the same thing though; Big East expansion is completely off the table unless something massive happens. Probably a total of 3 or 4 potential but highly unlikely scenarios.

1) Notre Dame gets an ultimatum to join the ACC in football, they refuse, and the ACC kicks them out (probably the greatest, although still slim possibility, especially if our perception continues to improve).
2) Supersonic jetliners become commonplace, and the trip to Spokane turns into an affordable 2 hour hop.
3) VCU, Dayton, Davidson, or SLU start making the Final 4 on a regular basis.
4) The ACC somehow realigns and Wake Forest gets left out.

[kayako]

Kansas
I State
K State
Ok State
Baylor
TCU
WVU
SMU
Houston
Memphis
Cincinnati
And someone like UCF (if they're around), Tulsa, or Tulane (pump up the academic cred).

Ok State would follow the Sonners. But yeah, I see no scenario in which there are Big 12 schools looking for a basketball home.

[kayako]

3) VCU, Dayton, Davidson, or SLU start making the Final 4 on a regular basis.
4) The ACC somehow realigns and Wake Forest gets left out.

If VCU makes a few 2nd weekend runs, nevermind regular final 4 appearances, wouldn't they become a no brainer candidate? Their profile would already be in the top half of the conference. If this is a basketball decision, they'd be light years ahead of Wake Forest.