Why Not 14?

[stever20]

Redman has interesting points and opinions, but they are only his opinions and wild speculation on what might happen in the broader landscape. The limited guidance we have from the school presidents and Val indicate that they’ve looked at expansion candidates but specifically mentioned that a round robin is favored by all. So you might get one school added, but I can’t see more than that. Adding A10 schools just to keep up with the numbers in other leagues is a bad decision in my opinion. Happy thanksgiving.

But the thing that will have changed with their next discussions is this current season where the league is struggling. With only 10 teams, there's no guarantee that the league will get even 4 bids, let alone 5.

And I do find it really interesting that the folks most against expansion/for the round robin are Creighton, Butler, and Xavier fans....

[GoldenWarrior11]

I am very against adding any non-private schools via expansion, with the lone exception being UConn (which would be a stopgap for them anyway).

Keep our identity with the Catholic/Private, basketball-first schools.

[Omaha1]

Redman has interesting points and opinions, but they are only his opinions and wild speculation on what might happen in the broader landscape. The limited guidance we have from the school presidents and Val indicate that they’ve looked at expansion candidates but specifically mentioned that a round robin is favored by all. So you might get one school added, but I can’t see more than that. Adding A10 schools just to keep up with the numbers in other leagues is a bad decision in my opinion. Happy thanksgiving.

But the thing that will have changed with their next discussions is this current season where the league is struggling. With only 10 teams, there's no guarantee that the league will get even 4 bids, let alone 5.

And I do find it really interesting that the folks most against expansion/for the round robin are Creighton, Butler, and Xavier fans....

And I find it interesting that a non Big East fan posts here more than anyone else. It’s silly season to say that theee weeks of play during the fifth season of this iteration of the league somehow trumps the previous four unbelievably successful seasons and that’s the reason we should expand.

[stever20]

Redman has interesting points and opinions, but they are only his opinions and wild speculation on what might happen in the broader landscape. The limited guidance we have from the school presidents and Val indicate that they’ve looked at expansion candidates but specifically mentioned that a round robin is favored by all. So you might get one school added, but I can’t see more than that. Adding A10 schools just to keep up with the numbers in other leagues is a bad decision in my opinion. Happy thanksgiving.

But the thing that will have changed with their next discussions is this current season where the league is struggling. With only 10 teams, there's no guarantee that the league will get even 4 bids, let alone 5.

And I do find it really interesting that the folks most against expansion/for the round robin are Creighton, Butler, and Xavier fans....

And I find it interesting that a non Big East fan posts here more than anyone else. It’s silly season to say that theee weeks of play during the fifth season of this iteration of the league somehow trumps the previous four unbelievably successful seasons and that’s the reason we should expand.

It's the 6th season of the league. And while you say it's only 3 weeks- we've had 1/3 of the OOC season- and yet the league has 14 losses in OOC play. The most OOC losses the league has ever had- 31 losses....

And yes, leagues look at things at more when they are at the worst. Folks are very risk adverse.

[Xudash]

This entire conversation starts and stops with the value of any prospective addition relative to a new television contract.

This is exactly like the way it is with the economics that exist with P5 football.

Why do you think UC and UCONN are still sitting on the sidelines when it comes to one of the P5 conferences?

Why do you think we never got past 10 teams, though the speculation was that we would soon add one or two shortly after we got going?

[whiteandblue77]

It's UCONN or nobody and it will all be figured out in the next 6 months when the AAC gets their new media contract.

Bottom line: it's all about football money FOR THEM, and this season has been a shit show of filthy football dollars, southern football sportswriters, F5 coaches and all the people in those pathetic states paying allegiance to their football school who are all trying their little darnedest to obliterate non-filthy-football-dollar schools from college basketball.

[NJRedman]

This entire conversation starts and stops with the value of any prospective addition relative to a new television contract.

This is exactly like the way it is with the economics that exist with P5 football.

Why do you think UC and UCONN are still sitting on the sidelines when it comes to one of the P5 conferences?

Why do you think we never got past 10 teams, though the speculation was that we would soon add one or two shortly after we got going?

We didn't go past 10 teams because it would have looked like we were weaker by adding 5 mid-major teams. Times have changed with the major conferences going to 20 conference games and more than likely most conferences following suit. Also more inventory means more product we can put up for sale. Fox wont be able to air them all and we can sell a lower level package to a CBS sports or whichever streaming service offers us the most.

As a long time Big East fan there is something the fans of the newer members wont get. It's the helplessness we felt watching the league put it's head in the sand and get caught flat footed when we were raided multiple times. Being a reactionary as opposed to a visionary is not the way to go in the world of college sports. You either make your own destiny or let someone dictate it to you. Expansion is coming wether you like it or not. Might as well get used to the idea. There are 3 legit possibilities in the A-10, private or public that makes no difference. Just as long as they are BBall first and are committed to win they will be a good candidate/member.

[NJRedman]

Redman has interesting points and opinions, but they are only his opinions and wild speculation on what might happen in the broader landscape. The limited guidance we have from the school presidents and Val indicate that they’ve looked at expansion candidates but specifically mentioned that a round robin is favored by all. So you might get one school added, but I can’t see more than that. Adding A10 schools just to keep up with the numbers in other leagues is a bad decision in my opinion. Happy thanksgiving.

I wouldn't call saying that the P5 will become the P4 as wild speculation. The conference almost blew up once before and if Texas or OU goes then the whole thing will fall apart.

Also the presidents nor Val would ever talk about contingency or long term plans to the public. So I don't know how thats even relevant.

[Xudash]

This entire conversation starts and stops with the value of any prospective addition relative to a new television contract.

This is exactly like the way it is with the economics that exist with P5 football.

Why do you think UC and UCONN are still sitting on the sidelines when it comes to one of the P5 conferences?

Why do you think we never got past 10 teams, though the speculation was that we would soon add one or two shortly after we got going?

We didn't go past 10 teams because it would have looked like we were weaker by adding 5 mid-major teams. Times have changed with the major conferences going to 20 conference games and more than likely most conferences following suit. Also more inventory means more product we can put up for sale. Fox wont be able to air them all and we can sell a lower level package to a CBS sports or whichever streaming service offers us the most.

As a long time Big East fan there is something the fans of the newer members wont get. It's the helplessness we felt watching the league put it's head in the sand and get caught flat footed when we were raided multiple times. Being a reactionary as opposed to a visionary is not the way to go in the world of college sports. You either make your own destiny or let someone dictate it to you. Expansion is coming whether you like it or not. Might as well get used to the idea. There are 3 legit possibilities in the A-10, private or public that makes no difference. Just as long as they are BBall first and are committed to win they will be a good candidate/member.

We didn't go past 10 teams initially because the C7 + Xavier, Butler and Creighton became what was perceived to be the optimal package for Fox Sports. That optimal package became the optimal package for the Big East. Does some of that get chalked up to being in the right place at the right time? Absolutely. But that's our good fortune.

Inventory (more of it) obviously does mean more content that can be put up for sale. That's the "Q" side of it. The issue is what settles in as the "Price Per Unit" for that content. The added content has to be worth something. More directly to the point, if we still have the negotiating leverage, expansion has to create proportional returns to what each school is enjoying now. Otherwise, it obviously would be dilutive.

As a Xavier fan, I watched the Big East ebb and flow rather closely, as I badly wanted Xavier to be a part of it as it moved towards its final football v. basketball chaos. I was tired of the A10's refusal to carve out its deadwood, and I otherwise knew the A10 economics were always going to be putrid at the conference level. So, I didn't feel your pain directly, but I understood it.

You also may believe I'm adamantly opposed to expansion. I'm not, but it has to make economic sense to the Big East, so long as the Big East remains in a reasonable position of strength to negotiate its contracts. If expansion must take place, and I'm not sold on the "must" part of that yet, then make it count: go as big and as best as possible, ASSUMING P5 football shake-ups happen again around the next wave of media contracts. You mentioned it yourself: we didn't add mid-majors because we would have been perceived as being weak. That still must and probably does hold true now and moving forward.

Slow down on the perceived need to the content/20 conference games problem. We're okay so long as the Gavitts continue and so long as the Big XII stays at 10.

IF a big shake-up occurs and teams like UCONN become available, then look at that very, very carefully

IF a shake-up occurs and teams like UCONN and UC finally are allowed into the P5 club, then it gets more complicated. That hasn't happened yet. It would seem like that will be less and less likely to happen moving forward, because the payouts coupled with their appeal and metrics can't keep up to justify their inclusion in the P5.

Do you seriously believe Fox will true-up our deal if we add mid-majors to the Big East? It's an interesting conversation as always, but one man's proactivity is another man's reactivity.

My opinion anyway.

[NJRedman]

This entire conversation starts and stops with the value of any prospective addition relative to a new television contract.

This is exactly like the way it is with the economics that exist with P5 football.

Why do you think UC and UCONN are still sitting on the sidelines when it comes to one of the P5 conferences?

Why do you think we never got past 10 teams, though the speculation was that we would soon add one or two shortly after we got going?

We didn't go past 10 teams because it would have looked like we were weaker by adding 5 mid-major teams. Times have changed with the major conferences going to 20 conference games and more than likely most conferences following suit. Also more inventory means more product we can put up for sale. Fox wont be able to air them all and we can sell a lower level package to a CBS sports or whichever streaming service offers us the most.

As a long time Big East fan there is something the fans of the newer members wont get. It's the helplessness we felt watching the league put it's head in the sand and get caught flat footed when we were raided multiple times. Being a reactionary as opposed to a visionary is not the way to go in the world of college sports. You either make your own destiny or let someone dictate it to you. Expansion is coming whether you like it or not. Might as well get used to the idea. There are 3 legit possibilities in the A-10, private or public that makes no difference. Just as long as they are BBall first and are committed to win they will be a good candidate/member.

We didn't go past 10 teams initially because the C7 + Xavier, Butler and Creighton became what was perceived to be the optimal package for Fox Sports. That optimal package became the optimal package for the Big East. Does some of that get chalked up to being in the right place at the right time? Absolutely. But that's our good fortune.

Inventory (more of it) obviously does mean more content that can be put up for sale. That's the "Q" side of it. The issue is what settles in as the "Price Per Unit" for that content. The added content has to be worth something. More directly to the point, if we still have the negotiating leverage, expansion has to create proportional returns to what each school is enjoying now. Otherwise, it obviously would be dilutive.

As a Xavier fan, I watched the Big East ebb and flow rather closely, as I badly wanted Xavier to be a part of it as it moved towards its final football v. basketball chaos. I was tired of the A10's refusal to carve out its deadwood, and I otherwise knew the A10 economics were always going to be putrid at the conference level. So, I didn't feel your pain directly, but I understood it.

You also may believe I'm adamantly opposed to expansion. I'm not, but it has to make economic sense to the Big East, so long as the Big East remains in a reasonable position of strength to negotiate its contracts. If expansion must take place, and I'm not sold on the "must" part of that yet, then make it count: go as big and as best as possible, ASSUMING P5 football shake-ups happen again around the next wave of media contracts. You mentioned it yourself: we didn't add mid-majors because we would have been perceived as being weak. That still must and probably does hold true now and moving forward.

Slow down on the perceived need to the content/20 conference games problem. We're okay so long as the Gavitts continue and so long as the Big XII stays at 10.

IF a big shake-up occurs and teams like UCONN become available, then look at that very, very carefully

IF a shake-up occurs and teams like UCONN and UC finally are allowed into the P5 club, then it gets more complicated. That hasn't happened yet. It would seem like that will be less and less likely to happen moving forward, because the payouts coupled with their appeal and metrics can't keep up to justify their inclusion in the P5.

Do you seriously believe Fox will true-up our deal if we add mid-majors to the Big East? It's an interesting conversation as always, but one man's proactivity is another man's reactivity.

My opinion anyway.

It did when we added X, Butler and Creighton.