Mustapha Heron a Johnny?

[Savannah Jay]

Make no mistake and this is not an exaggeration...Heron is a program changer and was the best player in the SEC.

Heron is a good player and will help SJU. But he was not the best player in the SEC. According to the coaches in the SEC, he wasn't even one of the top 16. In fact, according to the coaches, he wasn't even the best player at Auburn.

http://www.secsports.com/article/22657404/2018-sec-men-basketball-awards-announced

Regardless, would be good news for SJU.

He was voted to the AP Second Team. The Coach poll was seen as a strange omission. I'll trust the AP here:

AP First Team All-SEC
Bryce Brown, Auburn
Daryl Macon, Arkansas
Yante Maten, Georgia (unanimous)
Collin Sexton, Alabama
Grant Williams, Tennessee (unanimous)

AP Second Team All-SEC
Jaylen Barford, Arkansas
Chris Chiozza, Florida
Jared Harper, Auburn
Mustapha Heron, Auburn
Kassius Robertson, Missouri

So, he is arguably the second best returning SEC player, while Ponds is the best returning Big East player (only returning 1st Team player).

I was only commenting on a post that was, by any publication or source you want to pick, factually incorrect. Heron was not the best player in the SEC, whether you want to believe the coaches or the AP. I agree that the AP all SEC team makes more sense to me, as someone living in SEC country who gets that stuff shoved down my throat. The coaches poll almost looks like the other 13 coaches had a bug up the you know what about Auburn. Aside from not even having Heron on second team, I think most folks viewed Bryce Brown as a first teamer.

Ponds coming back is great for the league and for SJU. If Johnnies get Heron, that's great for the league and SJU, as well. For the conference's sake, this would be a very good year for SJU to be very good, given what other teams have lost.

[stever20]

looking on Ken Pom, Heron wasn't listed as being on the All-SEC team so statistically, he wasn't one of the top 5 players(nether was Brown)....

[adoraz]

He was voted to the AP Second Team. The Coach poll was seen as a strange omission. I'll trust the AP here:

AP First Team All-SEC
Bryce Brown, Auburn
Daryl Macon, Arkansas
Yante Maten, Georgia (unanimous)
Collin Sexton, Alabama
Grant Williams, Tennessee (unanimous)

AP Second Team All-SEC
Jaylen Barford, Arkansas
Chris Chiozza, Florida
Jared Harper, Auburn
Mustapha Heron, Auburn
Kassius Robertson, Missouri

So, he is arguably the second best returning SEC player, while Ponds is the best returning Big East player (only returning 1st Team player).

I was only commenting on a post that was, by any publication or source you want to pick, factually incorrect. Heron was not the best player in the SEC, whether you want to believe the coaches or the AP. I agree that the AP all SEC team makes more sense to me, as someone living in SEC country who gets that stuff shoved down my throat. The coaches poll almost looks like the other 13 coaches had a bug up the you know what about Auburn. Aside from not even having Heron on second team, I think most folks viewed Bryce Brown as a first teamer.

Ponds coming back is great for the league and for SJU. If Johnnies get Heron, that's great for the league and SJU, as well. For the conference's sake, this would be a very good year for SJU to be very good, given what other teams have lost.

Yes I agree. I was not defending MM's post since it wasn't accurate. I was just giving Heron more credit than the Coach's poll did, since that's not an accurate representation of his talent. Not blaming you for that, as a Google search mostly just shows how the coaches voted. I had to dig for the AP poll lol.

Honestly, the Big East could be heading for a major down year this year. I really hope SJU can be a Top 25 team for once.

[Friarsfan94]

He was voted to the AP Second Team. The Coach poll was seen as a strange omission. I'll trust the AP here:

AP First Team All-SEC
Bryce Brown, Auburn
Daryl Macon, Arkansas
Yante Maten, Georgia (unanimous)
Collin Sexton, Alabama
Grant Williams, Tennessee (unanimous)

AP Second Team All-SEC
Jaylen Barford, Arkansas
Chris Chiozza, Florida
Jared Harper, Auburn
Mustapha Heron, Auburn
Kassius Robertson, Missouri

So, he is arguably the second best returning SEC player, while Ponds is the best returning Big East player (only returning 1st Team player).

I was only commenting on a post that was, by any publication or source you want to pick, factually incorrect. Heron was not the best player in the SEC, whether you want to believe the coaches or the AP. I agree that the AP all SEC team makes more sense to me, as someone living in SEC country who gets that stuff shoved down my throat. The coaches poll almost looks like the other 13 coaches had a bug up the you know what about Auburn. Aside from not even having Heron on second team, I think most folks viewed Bryce Brown as a first teamer.

Ponds coming back is great for the league and for SJU. If Johnnies get Heron, that's great for the league and SJU, as well. For the conference's sake, this would be a very good year for SJU to be very good, given what other teams have lost.

Yes I agree. I was not defending MM's post since it wasn't accurate. I was just giving Heron more credit than the Coach's poll did, since that's not an accurate representation of his talent. Not blaming you for that, as a Google search mostly just shows how the coaches voted. I had to dig for the AP poll lol.

Honestly, the Big East could be heading for a major down year this year. I really hope SJU can be a Top 25 team for once.

Wait a minute...so the SEC does 2 sets of all-conference teams-the coaches vote on one and then the AP votes on one too? That seems kind of ridiculous lol. And just for the sake of argument, why would you hold the AP to a higher opinion than that of the coaches of the teams in the conference?

[adoraz]

Wait a minute...so the SEC does 2 sets of all-conference teams-the coaches vote on one and then the AP votes on one too? That seems kind of ridiculous lol. And just for the sake of argument, why would you hold the AP to a higher opinion than that of the coaches of the teams in the conference?

It's really weird because it doesn't look like the AP votes for Big East players...

Regarding trusting the AP more, it's the same reason the Coach's Top 25 poll is always a week or two behind the AP Top 25. When a new team enters the rankings for example, the Coach's will usually be delayed by a week or two in getting that new team ranked. Tbh I think the coaches wait for the AP Top 25 poll to come out, and then reevaluate their own rankings the following week. That's because the coaches primarily focus on their team and I'd imagine base their All Team rankings on reputation/the one or two times they faced that player during the year. For the AP, however, I'd think they would look at stats when determining these rankings and would take a more scientific approach to it.

Basically, the AP is more accurate for the Top 25 rankings, and therefore I'd also trust them more for the player rankings.

[hortle]

Wait a minute...so the SEC does 2 sets of all-conference teams-the coaches vote on one and then the AP votes on one too? That seems kind of ridiculous lol. And just for the sake of argument, why would you hold the AP to a higher opinion than that of the coaches of the teams in the conference?

It's really weird because it doesn't look like the AP votes for Big East players...

Regarding trusting the AP more, it's the same reason the Coach's Top 25 poll is always a week or two behind the AP Top 25. When a new team enters the rankings for example, the Coach's will usually be delayed by a week or two in getting that new team ranked. Tbh I think the coaches wait for the AP Top 25 poll to come out, and then reevaluate their own rankings the following week. That's because the coaches primarily focus on their team and I'd imagine base their All Team rankings on reputation/the one or two times they faced that player during the year. For the AP, however, I'd think they would look at stats when determining these rankings and would take a more scientific approach to it.

Basically, the AP is more accurate for the Top 25 rankings, and therefore I'd also trust them more for the player rankings.

what?

[adoraz]

Wait a minute...so the SEC does 2 sets of all-conference teams-the coaches vote on one and then the AP votes on one too? That seems kind of ridiculous lol. And just for the sake of argument, why would you hold the AP to a higher opinion than that of the coaches of the teams in the conference?

It's really weird because it doesn't look like the AP votes for Big East players...

Regarding trusting the AP more, it's the same reason the Coach's Top 25 poll is always a week or two behind the AP Top 25. When a new team enters the rankings for example, the Coach's will usually be delayed by a week or two in getting that new team ranked. Tbh I think the coaches wait for the AP Top 25 poll to come out, and then reevaluate their own rankings the following week. That's because the coaches primarily focus on their team and I'd imagine base their All Team rankings on reputation/the one or two times they faced that player during the year. For the AP, however, I'd think they would look at stats when determining these rankings and would take a more scientific approach to it.

Basically, the AP is more accurate for the Top 25 rankings, and therefore I'd also trust them more for the player rankings.

what?

?

The Coach's poll is nearly always a week or two slower than the AP in terms of ranking new, well deserving teams or moving teams up/down in the rankings. So if an under the radar team has a big week and is undefeated early on in the season, the AP will recognize that and rank them immediately. The coaches take an additional week or two to rank that same team, and I think they base their rankings off the prior week's AP poll (since both come out the same time). The AP looks at the college landscape as a whole while Coaches generally look at their own team and upcoming schedule. There's a reason nobody pays attention to the Coach's Top 25. It's just an outdated version of the AP Top 25.

[Bill Marsh]

Let’s not create false expectations for St John’s - with or without Heron. They still have to replace more than 40% of their minutes, which leaves them with a lot of questions going into the season.

Will Sedee Keita be the answer to replacing Tariq Owens at center? He better be because they also lost all of their depth behind Owens with the departures of Alebegovic and Yakwe. Heron is a guard even in the unlikely event that he is eligible and if it’s At St John’s, so he won’t help with the lack of size going into next year.

Bashir Ahmed’s experience and clutch play is going to be tough to replace with any newcomer. He was a big contributor to their success the last couple of years.

[stever20]

Let’s not create false expectations for St John’s - with or without Heron. They still have to replace more than 40% of their minutes, which leaves them with a lot of questions going into the season.

Will Sedee Keita be the answer to replacing Tariq Owens at center? He better be because they also lost all of their depth behind Owens with the departures of Alebegovic and Yakwe. Heron is a guard even in the unlikely event that he is eligible and if it’s At St John’s, so he won’t help with the lack of size going into next year.

Bashir Ahmed’s experience and clutch play is going to be tough to replace with any newcomer. He was a big contributor to their success the last couple of years.

but the thing is, replaicng 40% of the minutes is nothing compared to some schools. Nova is having to replace now 60% of their minutes- and those minutes were taken by 4/6 starters. St John's problem if you will is they have 2 guys on the roster who are 6'7 or taller. They were already one of the 50 worst rebounding teams in the country, now that'll be worse. But the biggest thing is without the rim protection that Owens provided(#17 shot blocker in the country by Ken Pom)- how is that going to impact the defense?

[Red Rooster]

Let’s not create false expectations for St John’s - with or without Heron. They still have to replace more than 40% of their minutes, which leaves them with a lot of questions going into the season.

Will Sedee Keita be the answer to replacing Tariq Owens at center? He better be because they also lost all of their depth behind Owens with the departures of Alebegovic and Yakwe. Heron is a guard even in the unlikely event that he is eligible and if it’s At St John’s, so he won’t help with the lack of size going into next year.

Bashir Ahmed’s experience and clutch play is going to be tough to replace with any newcomer. He was a big contributor to their success the last couple of years.

First of all, don't mention "depth" and the Johnnies in the same breath. They didn't have any type of luxury. Alibigovic and Yakwe was cemented to the bench for most of the year. Alibigovic received some burn during the very, latter stages of the season. He was active and played decent defense, but he and Yakwe will be easily replaced.

Owens's energy, experience and ability to block shots will be missed, but he was also easily pushed around and was a poor rebounder. I feel Keita will bring the same energy (minus the shot blocking), size, along with being a steady rebounder. I'm not sure about Keita's post game, but it can't be worst than Owens'. The latter had no post game whatsoever. Zilch.

I like Bashir Ahmed, and think he could be initially missed, but he was also a bit too "hit and miss." He would occasionally disappear during the season. I do think his shot selection was slightly better this past season than the previous one (when he was a complete black hole), but he still would periodically fall back into the style of play during his junior season.

I feel confident in saying LJ Figueroa will sufficiently replace Ahmed. Figueroa was a D-1 JUCO 1st team All-American (the only freshman selected on the first team) this past season. Shot the ball well in his only season in the JUCO ranks. He seems to have a cerebral style to the way he goes about his business on the floor (I viewed a couple of his JUCO games). He could potentially take a few games before he gets his feet under him. I think he'll make the transition before long and will soundly replace Ahmed.

The Johnnies are short on big men (no pun intended, lol), but they're loaded with guards and swingmen. If they land Mustapha Heron AND he receives a waiver where he's immediately eligible, then you're talking about an extremely solid backcourt to an elite backcourt. If the Johnnies' big men defend, rebound, and occasionally look to and score, then this could be a team to be reckon with next season.