Report: Corruption Case Threatens 50+ Hoops Programs

[Hall2012]

So Xavier, Nova, Creighton, Seton Hall named. All to varying degrees, but lets not kid ourselves as this is only the beginning. 40% of the league. Probably the other 60% will be exposed soon anyways..

LOL.....no

If there is one thing that I would bet my retirement on that I have no control of is that Butler will ever be cited for some compliance thing.

They basically have a brand around it. It would be bad for brand equity to even have a vague appearance of something improper. Stevens, in particular, would go to great lengths to comply to things that aren't even rules - uber compliance

It's really nothing to do with Butler. All it takes is for one kid to have a $100 dinner with an agent when he's home for a few weeks in the summer. Or the father of one kid taking a $4,000 loan from an agent, without the kid even knowing, because he wants to lease a new car. Then you are making the news and at risk of forfeiting games.

Well they were almost certainly looking at different things. The NCAA was looking at SHU records, the FBI was looking into a shady sports agency. The agency wouldn't have to talk to the NCAA even if they did ask.

And yes, he could be declared ineligible either way, but it's still important for the extent of penalties. If SHU had no knowledge or involvement, there's a good chance penalties end at vacating wins from IW's 2 seasons. If there is involvement, now we're talking scholarship reductions, tournament bans, etc. Which won't help the search for a new coach.

[Irishdawg]

It's really nothing to do with Butler. All it takes is for one kid to have a $100 dinner with an agent when he's home for a few weeks in the summer. Or the father of one kid taking a $4,000 loan from an agent, without the kid even knowing, because he wants to lease a new car. Then you are making the news and at risk of forfeiting games.

True, but who at Butler would be thought of highly enough (NBA level talent) to be taking meetings (or have their parents take meetings) with agents? Martin hasn't even gone through the process of being evaluated the last 2 years. Plus, the agent has to pay for the meal (no issues if the check is split), and if the payment from an agent is $200 or less, the NCAA's basically made it so if you pay the money back you aren't forfeiting anything.

I'm not going to pretend that couldn't happen at Butler, but I just don't see the level of player that is coming up on these reports at Butler since Hayward and Mack. The car loan situation is completely different. People, especially at a small campus like Butler, notice something like that, and there's no way the coaching staff doesn't find out about it unless they're leasing a mid 2000s Toyota Camry, and kids in general aren't smart enough to avoid renting an awesome car vs. a practical one that well if the money's coming in.

[DudeAnon]

A few schools may rise and fall based on this but the overall hierarchy will remain the same. If you look at basketball budgets versus success it almost maps 1:1 currently, would be no different in the future. Again, its nothing specific about the NCAA, its just my personal belief.

You can't be serious! Do you think X attracts the same caliber of student as Georgetown or the same caliber of professors as the top schools in the country. The answer is you're not even close and it's financial, 90 % of the BIg East would be at an extreme disadvantage to Georgetown if a no limits game opens up and a coach/booster could pay as much as they want for their roster. Per my previous post it would be the same as comparing the Yankees to the Reds or Brewers. If the overall hierarchy was working so well then why did Sean Miller need to offer a player $100,000? Georgetown's endowment is almost as large as the other 9 teams in Big East...Ohio State's is almost twice the size of the entire Big East, Notre Dame's is 4X as large as the entire Big East and you want to get in a no limits pay game? Good luck with that.

Look, I am trying to avoid being confrontational. But if you look at college basketball budgets and compare them to recruiting rankings it is a push more or less. So the free market is already in play, its just not benefiting the athletes.

[admin]

ESPN just said Sean Miller might never coach another college game. Assume Arizona has to forfeit all of their wins and will miss the NCAA tournamet, I supoose that opens up one extra at large bid.

[stever20]

ESPN just said Sean Miller might never coach another college game. Assume Arizona has to forfeit all of their wins and will miss the NCAA tournamet, I supoose that opens up one extra at large bid.

The problem is that I don't think they can just forfeit all the wins now(like you might see in a high school situation). That'll happen like 3-4 years from now(like just happened with Louisville). So unless Arizona took a voluntary postseason ban right now, I think they're going to be in.

[kayako]

I have a feeling that the vast majority of the cases are very minor, like going $5 over the allowed dinner bill. Miller's been under suspicion for a while now, not at all surprising.

[paulxu]

I'm not going to pretend that couldn't happen at Butler, but I just don't see the level of player that is coming up on these reports at Butler since Hayward and Mack. The car loan situation is completely different. People, especially at a small campus like Butler, notice something like that, and there's no way the coaching staff doesn't find out about it unless they're leasing a mid 2000s Toyota Camry, and kids in general aren't smart enough to avoid renting an awesome car vs. a practical one that well if the money's coming in.

You missed his point. He noted that if a kid's "father" got a loan for a car, how would anything that the coaches/school were doing stop this from happening.
In fact, that may be exactly the Xavier/Sumner issue. Edmond Sumner's father apparently got $7000 from an agent (or runner) in Detroit, while Sumner was busy playing Villanova at the Cintas Center that same day.
I hope Chris Mack is clean and not dirty. I think he is. But how does he control the agent giving Sumner's dad money?

[kmacker69]

I'm not going to pretend that couldn't happen at Butler, but I just don't see the level of player that is coming up on these reports at Butler since Hayward and Mack. The car loan situation is completely different. People, especially at a small campus like Butler, notice something like that, and there's no way the coaching staff doesn't find out about it unless they're leasing a mid 2000s Toyota Camry, and kids in general aren't smart enough to avoid renting an awesome car vs. a practical one that well if the money's coming in.

You missed his point. He noted that if a kid's "father" got a loan for a car, how would anything that the coaches/school were doing stop this from happening.
In fact, that may be exactly the Xavier/Sumner issue. Edmond Sumner's father apparently got $7000 from an agent (or runner) in Detroit, while Sumner was busy playing Villanova at the Cintas Center that same day.
I hope Chris Mack is clean and not dirty. I think he is. But how does he control the agent giving Sumner's dad money?

He doesn't... He tells Sumner to tell his dad to give it back or I self report and you no longer play for this team. Should he have know that is a harder question, but I think just like the AZ picture became a lot clearer, so will the rest... Hypothetical scenarios are fun, but you might end up eating your words like a lot of AZ fans just had to.

[ecasadoSBU]

Miller. not coaching tonight. He is done. OUCH!

Zona goes down.

[MullinMayhem]

Anon, race has no place in the discussion here, little silly. The problem with paying players is you get yourself into a new game where the richest always get the best players. Big East teams have way lower endowments/resources when compared to huge football schools like Texas. If we get in this game paying players, I hope you’re happy with only 2-3 star recruits. We would steal the recruits from schools like Hofstra but all the huge football schools would steal the 4-5 star recruits and probably the top 3 stars. It makes no sense to want to get into spending wars which we will lose most of.