Can we agree on Xavier, Butler, and Creighton

[Iceman]

Whichever network picks up the BE7's TV contract will want the additions to be regionally sensible, unless there's a major addition possible (ala Gonzaga). You want members of a conference to be geographically related, b/c there's a lot of cross-pollinating of fans in each conference city. For instance, there are undoubtedly plenty of Marquette, Butler, and Xavier grads living in Chicago. There are lots of Georegown and Villanova grads in NYC. Networks want fans of every team in every conference city. It drives viewership and fan interest. It would be a bad move to get outside the NE/E/MW for that reason.

Also, the time zone difference is likely a deal killer for Gonzaga. When Zag fans are just now walking in the door from work (6pm), it's already 9pm in the EST. Are Georgetown fans going to stay up until midnight or 1AM to watch all of a 10pm EST tip off? Too great of a time zone divide and you lose your audience, even if the teams have large and passionate fan bases. This is why you don't see a lot of ACC teams playing Pac12 teams during the regular season in football............and it's much easier to deal with TZ differences when games are only played on Saturdays, when no one is coming home from work to catch a game.

My personal rankings:

#8) Xavier
#9) Butler
#10) VCU
#11) Creighton
#12) Dayton
#13) Richmond
#14) St. Louis

[whiteandblue77]

SLU > VCU

For a commuter school that didn't play basketball until 1968 and played in the sun belt until 1991 I have to say what VCU has done in the past 20 years is extremely admirable, but SLU is a better fit in every category except for VCU's FF run in 2011.

[Iceman]

SLU > VCU

For a commuter school that didn't play basketball until 1968 and played in the sun belt until 1991 I have to say what VCU has done in the past 20 years is extremely admirable, but SLU is a better fit in every category except for VCU's FF run in 2011.

You sure are beating that commuter school drum pretty hard. Pretty sad that you actually believe what you write. At least we know why your handle isn't HarvardCrimson. The entire metropolitan area of Richmond has 205,000 people. VCU has 23,000 undergrad students alone. You really, truly think 10% of the Richmond population commutes to school? Mathematically, it's impossible. Why? B/c the entire city of Richmond graduates fewer than 3,000 students each year. And, a simple check of VCU's website shows only a fraction of a fraction of their student body is from the Richmond area.

SLU's only better than VCU at being Catholic. Otherwise, VCU takes them in every category. Heck, take the FF run off the books. Erase it. VCU still has more NCAA units the last 6 years - even w/o counting a single point from the FF year - than SLU has in the last 14. Heck, VCU has as many NCAA units in the last 6 years (10) as SLU has in the last SIXTY YEARS COMBINED!!! But please, tell us more about how great SLU is, how they're a "better fit in every category", and how VCU is a commuter school.

[whiteandblue77]

SLU > VCU

For a commuter school that didn't play basketball until 1968 and played in the sun belt until 1991 I have to say what VCU has done in the past 20 years is extremely admirable, but SLU is a better fit in every category except for VCU's FF run in 2011.

You sure are beating that commuter school drum pretty hard. Pretty sad that you actually believe what you write. At least we know why your handle isn't HarvardCrimson. The entire metropolitan area of Richmond has 205,000 people. VCU has 23,000 undergrad students alone. You really, truly think 10% of the Richmond population commutes to school? Mathematically, it's impossible. Why? B/c the entire city of Richmond graduates fewer than 3,000 students each year. And, a simple check of VCU's website shows only a fraction of a fraction of their student body is from the Richmond area.

SLU's only better than VCU at being Catholic. Otherwise, VCU takes them in every category. Heck, take the FF run off the books. Erase it. VCU still has more NCAA units the last 6 years - even w/o counting a single point from the FF year - than SLU has in the last 14. Heck, VCU has as many NCAA units in the last 6 years (10) as SLU has in the last SIXTY YEARS COMBINED!!! But please, tell us more about how great SLU is, how they're a "better fit in every category", and how VCU is a commuter school.

SLU > VCU

For a commuter school that didn't play basketball until 1968 and played in the sun belt until 1991 I have to say what VCU has done in the past 20 years is extremely admirable, but SLU is a better fit in every category except for VCU's FF run in 2011.

You sure are beating that commuter school drum pretty hard. Pretty sad that you actually believe what you write. At least we know why your handle isn't HarvardCrimson. The entire metropolitan area of Richmond has 205,000 people. VCU has 23,000 undergrad students alone. You really, truly think 10% of the Richmond population commutes to school? Mathematically, it's impossible. Why? B/c the entire city of Richmond graduates fewer than 3,000 students each year. And, a simple check of VCU's website shows only a fraction of a fraction of their student body is from the Richmond area.

SLU's only better than VCU at being Catholic. Otherwise, VCU takes them in every category. Heck, take the FF run off the books. Erase it. VCU still has more NCAA units the last 6 years - even w/o counting a single point from the FF year - than SLU has in the last 14. Heck, VCU has as many NCAA units in the last 6 years (10) as SLU has in the last SIXTY YEARS COMBINED!!! But please, tell us more about how great SLU is, how they're a "better fit in every category", and how VCU is a commuter school.

The past 6 years VCU has been extremely successful and impressive, and your success will continue, congrats. So VCU wins years 2007-2012, while SLU wins years 1915-2007.

But don't worry, your school seems to have hijacked the MSM and this board this week, so my ancient history lesson doesn't matter anyway. Happy Friday. TGIF! (Woops, sorry to bring religion into this )

[ruechalgrin]

I do not understand why Creighton is assumed to be better than Dayton and obviously I am a Dayton fan.

Just a comparison of Dayton versus Creighton -- trying to be objective, this looks like a coin-flip to me. Again, Creighton would be a great choice for your new league and I do not mean to disparage them in any way, I just do not see them being a materially better choice for you.

Last 5 year NCAA = Creighton 1 appearance with 1 Round 2; Dayton 1 appearance with 1 Round 2
Last 10 year NCAA = Creighton 4 appearances with 1 Round 2; Dayton 3 appearances with 1 Round 2
Last 30 years NCAA = Creighton 10 appearances with 3 Round 2; Dayton 7 Appearences with 3 Round 2, 1 Sweet 16, 1 Elite 8
Travel = Providence to Omaha; 1500 miles; Providence to Dayton 800 miles; Marquette to Dayton 400 miles and Marquette to Omaha 500 miles; extra 700 miles each way significant for Easr Coast members, particularly Olympic sports
TV Market = Dayton 64 and Omaha 78 - (Dayton 8th best college basketball market - I do not mean to imply 8th most households watching college - 8th in terms of percentage of households watching college basketball - http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic ... -12-a.html
Attendance = Creighton about 15,000 a game and Dayton 12,500
National Brand Reognition = Both High Mid Majors and Not in Same League as Xavier, Butler, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, etc.
Academics = Comparable with Dayton #115 National Universities (for reference Marquette #83): Creighton #1 Regional University Midwest (for reference Xavier #4); Dayton slightly lower acceptance rate and bigger endowment by $150M.
Dayton is 19-9 the last 6 seasons versus BCS schools (cannot find Creighton comparison)

Again, I am under no illusion Dayton is in the same calibre as Marquette, Geoergetown, Butler, Xavier, Villanova, etc. Moreover, I would be thrilled to receive an invite to your new league. I just do not see why it is assumed Creighton is a better fit than Dayton, looks pretty close to me and compelling arguments for both teams.

[whiteandblue77]

Creighton Dayton and St. Louis are all about the same, I hope all of us get in along with Butler and X. That's my 12. I hope CU gets in if it's 10 but I would understand if we didn't.

I'm getting pretty sick of waiting, I think the Jebbies are dragging this out too long. I say $hit or get off the pot already so productivity can return to St. Louis, Dayton and Omaha

[Pretzel]

The past 6 years VCU has been extremely successful and impressive, and your success will continue, congrats. So VCU wins years 2007-2012, while SLU wins years 1915-2007.

ESPN.com is counting down the 50 most successful programs of the past 50 years
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... 0-rankings

34. Xavier
53. Virginia Commonwealth
59. Butler
69. Creighton
81. Dayton
126. Richmond
216. Saint Louis

[Hoya]

Just saw ESPN highlighting Doug McDermott. I would love to see him playing in DC next year if Creighton gets invited and the league starts in 2013. What a player.

[ljay]

Okay, first let me say that Doug McDermott is not in the same league as Larry Bird. That said, he was for one evening.

I was privileged to watch Bird in his college days...and few were as that was before cable TV...by the way, did you know that he broke his right hand, playing softball I believe, after his college days and was never as good a shooter with the Celtics as his college days...and DMD played a very Bird-esque game last night. He scored in about 15 different ways with his 15 baskets.

That was a special night. I hope he sticks around and plays his senior year. He might as I think a lot of scouts don't think his game translates to the NBA real well (Wally Szczerbiak-esque?) so will be a late 1st, second round pick. I don't think you skip out for second round money. On the other hand, the word is this will be a weak draft so.................

It would be awesome for the new league to have a national POY candidate in its first season.

[billyjack]

Okay, first let me say that Doug McDermott is not in the same league as Larry Bird. That said, he was for one evening.

I was privileged to watch Bird in his college days...and few were as that was before cable TV...by the way, did you know that he broke his right hand, playing softball I believe, after his college days and was never as good a shooter with the Celtics as his college days...and DMD played a very Bird-esque game last night. He scored in about 15 different ways with his 15 baskets.

That was a special night. I hope he sticks around and plays his senior year. He might as I think a lot of scouts don't think his game translates to the NBA real well (Wally Szczerbiak-esque?) so will be a late 1st, second round pick. I don't think you skip out for second round money. On the other hand, the word is this will be a weak draft so.................

It would be awesome for the new league to have a national POY candidate in its first season.

The first time Indiana State in 79 was on in New England, and I guess nationally, was in their final MVC game that year vs Wichita State. It was a huge deal because they had climbed in the polls each week and were at or near the top. One of Wichita State's top players I remember was named Limburg (sp) "Cheese" Johnson. For years after watching that, anytime we played basketball in the backyard one of us would be Cheese Johnson. I still use the name with my kids.