Referee Issues

[redmen9194]

There seems to be a good number of issues involving refs in Big East games so far in this young season and with many of the games being so close so far, they are to some extent effecting the outcome. Now, there are bad calls every game. It can't be helped. And the history of the Big East is that a good number of bumps, pushes, punches, etc are what Louie Carnesseca used to call "subway taps" and are not called. All our teams have been on the receiving end of those calls and while they can be annoying, they are a part of Big East culture. But it seems that within the last 11 days there have been two calls that directly effected the outcome of two games that were easily correctable by the referees but that wasn't done.

The first has been discussed here to death - but I will resurrect it anyway since this is the "Holy Land". The ending of the St. John's game could have been easily rectified. If the officials simply called it what it was - an inadvertent whistle - the ball would have gone to SJU on the possession arrow. Maybe the Hall gets a steal, but it would have been a fair resolution within the rules. By couching it as a clock issue when it clearly was not (both by the fact that the clock started and by the fact that Seton Hall was given the ball out of bounds and not at the baseline as they originally had it) it effected the outcome and the credibility of the officiating and the game.

The second was last night. The initial call of the Marquette three is understandable because it is all happening quickly and they have to make a call. But did they check the monitors after and if so how do they not overturn that? Again, not only is the outcome of the game changed but the credibility of the officiating, the game and the conference becomes suspect.

We are in an officiating alliance with the ACC, the A-10 and the Colonial. There may be others involved as well. You can't prevent every mistake and you won't. But you can make sure the refs get it right after they mess up especially when the rules allow it. The Big East should make sure the refs do that.

[vtwarrior]

The same ref that blew the St. John's game actually tripped a MU player on a fast break.....

He was standing 6 feet on the court and couldn't get his fat dumb A$$ out of the way.....

The Creighton call on the game ending 3 was close and they went with the call on the court......(very very iffy)

That being said.....There were 6 phantom calls on MU to defenders in "stationary vertical position" that were pathetic......

I do not know where they get some of these A$$ clowns.....But they need to have a "suspension mechanism" when deemed that your "proficiency" does not meet some "minimal metric"......

I will dare to say.....We have seen at least 5 games this year that have been directly affected by poor reffing that have led to "game changing" outcomes....

[Hall2012]

Just addressing this part since it has been very commonly referred to, but based on my research I believe it to be incorrect. They also didn't actually rule it an inadvertent whistle or a clock adjustment - rather an intentionally blown but incorrect whistle.

You can download a free pdf of the rule book here if you don't believe me: https://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4553-2018-19-ncaa-mens-basketball-rules-and-interpretations.aspx

The ending of the St. John's game could have been easily rectified. If the officials simply called it what it was - an inadvertent whistle - the ball would have gone to SJU on the possession arrow. Maybe the Hall gets a steal, but it would have been a fair resolution within the rules.

Rule 6 Section 4: Alternating-Possession Situations

g. An inadvertent whistle occurs, and there is no player or team control, and

Rule 4 Section 9: Control—Player, Team
Art. 2. A team shall be in control when:
a. A player of the team is in control;
b. A live ball is being passed between teammates including when the pass is
muffed by the receiving teammate;
c. A player of that team has disposal of the ball for a throw-in; or
d. During an interrupted dribble. (See Rule 4-15.a.3 and Rule 4-24.)

Art. 3. Team control shall continue until the ball is in flight during a try for
goal, an opponent secures control or the ball becomes dead. (See Rule 4-24.)

Rule 4 Section 24: Loose Ball

Section 24. Loose Ball
A loose ball occurs when a player who is holding or dribbling the ball: 1)
fumbles it, 2) loses control of the ball when a defensive player bats or deflects
it out of his control, 3) releases the ball for a try for a goal or 4) a pass between
teammates is deflected by a player even though there is still team control.


To summarize based on this: The possession arrow would only be used in the case of no team control. In this instance, team control was established by Seton Hall by being awarded the initial throw in. From that point, Seton Hall's team control continued until one of the events in article 3 occurred (none of them did). Section 24 reaffirms this, stating that a deflected pass creates a "loose ball" situation but there is still team control. Therefore, by rule (what happens after the whistle is irrelevant), the incorrect/inadvertent whistle interrupted Seton Hall's team control and the only thing the refs could do within the rules was give the ball back to them.

If anybody has something that opposes this, I'm happy to be corrected.

[redmen9194]

They ruled it a clock issue. That's what the refs ruled it. Then they gave it to Seton Hall on the sideline rather than on the baseline. There is no justification for how it was handled. None. But that is done. The league has to make sure the refs are handling correctable mistakes appropriately, because so far they are not.

[stever20]

They ruled it a clock issue. That's what the refs ruled it. Then they gave it to Seton Hall on the sideline rather than on the baseline. There is no justification for how it was handled. None. But that is done. The league has to make sure the refs are handling correctable mistakes appropriately, because so far they are not.

They had to give it to them on the sideline rather than baseline because that's where the ball was when the whistle was blown.....

[Hall2012]

What part of it was correctable? Because as I just showed, calling it an inadvertent whistle would have changed nothing.

[redmen9194]

Seton Hall lost control when LJ first blocked the shot - and then corralled it a second time while in the air. The whistle then blew as LJ passed it back in to Herron. All of America believes it was correctable except Seton Hall and the Big East who would not make anyone available for questioning on the call. That should tell you everything. But I really have no interest in arguing over it. The purpose of this thread was to highlight ref issues that seem to be occurring fairly early in the conference season and that I assume everyone agrees needs to be addressed by the league.

[Hall2012]

Wait, what? When did anyone take a shot? Lol. Now you're just making stuff up. It was a deflected in-bound pass and the whistle blew before LJ or any other SJU player gained control. Everyone agrees that the whistle should not have been blown, but I'm yet to see any rule that would have allowed them to give the ball to SJU, no matter how unfair that may seem. Yeah yeah Fran Fraschilla tweeted this, whatever, he was wrong.

I agree it's over and pointless to argue about it, I'm just trying to stop the spread of misinformation (though admittedly the cat's already out of the bag there).

[SJUBBALL]

St. John’s got the win with the steal but I’m so tired of talking about it. Move on, everyone. We are gonna smack them at the Garden and then I bet they meet again and play a neck and neck game in the BET. The story of those two teams isn’t finished being written just because of one refs mistake

[stever20]

I think you can make the case that there are ref issues all across college hoops and not just limited to the Big East.