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10 - Hoyas
9 - DePaul
8 - St John's
7 - Marquette

so have the polls stopped?

Five team tie for first.

Omaha1 wrote:10 - Hoyas
9 - DePaul
8 - St John's
7 - Marquette

If SJ turns out to be 8th, I assume that would mean we have something like 5 ranked teams. IMO too much talent for SJ to finish towards very bottom. Mid pack team.

I refuse to vote in following polls out of protest for Butler being 6th.

MullinMayhem wrote:

Omaha1 wrote:10 - Hoyas
9 - DePaul
8 - St John's
7 - Marquette

If SJ turns out to be 8th, I assume that would mean we have something like 5 ranked teams. IMO too much talent for SJ to finish towards very bottom. Mid pack team.

Well considering last year the difference between 3rd and 7th was 1 game (3-6 all tied), and the 7th place team went to the elite 8...it's not that outrageous. Even 8th placed St. John's was only 3 games back of 3rd place.

This year I think 3rd place could separate a bit more along with the top 2 (as they likely would have last year without injuries), but I fully expect a similar mess with 4-8 where nothing may be decided until the final day and the difference between 4 and 8 could well be tiebreakers.

Hall2012 wrote:

MullinMayhem wrote:

Omaha1 wrote:10 - Hoyas
9 - DePaul
8 - St John's
7 - Marquette

If SJ turns out to be 8th, I assume that would mean we have something like 5 ranked teams. IMO too much talent for SJ to finish towards very bottom. Mid pack team.

Well considering last year the difference between 3rd and 7th was 1 game (3-6 all tied), and the 7th place team went to the elite 8...it's not that outrageous. Even 8th placed St. John's was only 3 games back of 3rd place.

This year I think 3rd place could separate a bit more along with the top 2 (as they likely would have last year without injuries), but I fully expect a similar mess with 4-8 where nothing may be decided until the final day and the difference between 4 and 8 could well be tiebreakers.

The thing is, the only teams I think we can say for sure have MORE talent (granted it's potential so who knows if it will be realized) than SJ are Villanova, Xavier, Seton Hall. Outside of that SJ can handle any of the other teams IMO from a talent perspective. A lot will depend on how well Ponds, LoVett, and Simon play together. If Simon is lockdown on D and can run the point effectively with LoVett/Ponds playing off the ball and Owens and Clark making things happen down low, I see no reason this is not an NCAA team. No one has a better guard trio. College hoops is a guards game. Look at UConn when they were good...guard driven. We lack real bigs, but I think guards are more important. I really wouldn't be that shocked to see SJ overachieve and be better than PC. It all depends on how much better our defense is. It doesn't have to be unstoppable...just get enough stops to let the offense work.

DudeAnon wrote:I refuse to vote in following polls out of protest for Butler being 6th.

I agree they should have been 8th.

MullinMayhem wrote:
The thing is, the only teams I think we can say for sure have MORE talent (granted it's potential so who knows if it will be realized) than SJ are Villanova, Xavier, Seton Hall. Outside of that SJ can handle any of the other teams IMO from a talent perspective. A lot will depend on how well Ponds, LoVett, and Simon play together. If Simon is lockdown on D and can run the point effectively with LoVett/Ponds playing off the ball and Owens and Clark making things happen down low, I see no reason this is not an NCAA team. No one has a better guard trio. College hoops is a guards game. Look at UConn when they were good...guard driven. We lack real bigs, but I think guards are more important. I really wouldn't be that shocked to see SJ overachieve and be better than PC. It all depends on how much better our defense is. It doesn't have to be unstoppable...just get enough stops to let the offense work.

And I don't disagree at all. I doubt many people here think SJ is a distant 8th. We're just being asked to take a shot in the dark on a tight field, and my guess is people aren't giving SJU the benefit of the doubt because they haven't seen Mullin put together a winning season yet. My point is that 1 shot could be the difference between SJU (or anyone else) finishing 4th or 8th, and neither would surprise me. Look at PC last year - they finished 3rd after tiebreakers, but if Cartwright's 3 at Creighton doesn't fall, they're 6th (still had tiebreaker over X). There's just so little separating most of the teams in this league.

DudeAnon wrote:I refuse to vote in following polls out of protest for Butler being 6th.

I know, it's preposterous. Kenpom says they should be 5th!