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Considering you have decided to riddle every thread with your trolling I think it would be easier to address it in its own thread.

So lets take a look at your arguments and just keep them here.

1) Creighton was a bad addition

So far in the NBE Creighton has made the tournament once, given us the NPOY and is now ranked in the top 10. Its also funny that a Butler fan would make this argument because they draw less than half as many fans as Creighton does.

2) We should be adding public schools

Um, which ones? Wichita St. and VCU are the only publics that are an arguable fit that would want to join currently. And neither totally elevates the brand, we would be adding public schools just for the sake of it.

3) BE is a failure as seen by its ratings

What is your comparison? FS1 ratings (while poor) have increased every year and the PAC-12 games (which are large public schools) that are aired have gotten worse ratings than the BE.

You seem to be fixated on public schools being the magic pill for the NBE. But nothing you say is proven to be true, just your own obnoxious opinion. You claim the BE is a failure. Almost every basketball metric would disagree, 50% of conference making tourney on average and a national championship in 3 years. You say ratings suck but ignore that PAC 12 games have been no better on FS1. Also, you completely ignore the fact that there are very few viable public additions and even then they aren't the kind of name brands you are speaking of. The fact is, the Big East is what it is. Even if we add VCU & Wichita St. (which are both 2nd tier brands at best) then we are still a conference with 10/12 schools being private (primarily catholic) basketball schools. The fact is that we can't judge the relevancy of the Big East in a small 3 year span. 10 years from now it will be more apparent whether this conference can succeed and keep pace with the P5. Wichita St. and VCU aren't going to change that.

Again, please keep your rants to this thread because the rest of us are trying to enjoy this conference which we are proud of. And to have you constantly fixating on the one perceivable weakness of the conference in spite of all its accomplishments has elevated you to by far the most annoying poster on this board (sorry stever.)

It is well-established to that he is a frustrated Wichita State fan.

The Butler thing was a quick cover for whatever sad reason.

Big East should dump Creighton and add Wichita State. I am a fan of... uh... Butler.

DudeAnon wrote:Considering you have decided to riddle every thread with your trolling I think it would be easier to address it in its own thread.

So lets take a look at your arguments and just keep them here.

1) Creighton was a bad addition

So far in the NBE Creighton has made the tournament once, given us the NPOY and is now ranked in the top 10. Its also funny that a Butler fan would make this argument because they draw less than half as many fans as Creighton does.

2) We should be adding public schools

Um, which ones? Wichita St. and VCU are the only publics that are an arguable fit that would want to join currently. And neither totally elevates the brand, we would be adding public schools just for the sake of it.

3) BE is a failure as seen by its ratings

What is your comparison? FS1 ratings (while poor) have increased every year and the PAC-12 games (which are large public schools) that are aired have gotten worse ratings than the BE.

You seem to be fixated on public schools being the magic pill for the NBE. But nothing you say is proven to be true, just your own obnoxious opinion. You claim the BE is a failure. Almost every basketball metric would disagree, 50% of conference making tourney on average and a national championship in 3 years. You say ratings suck but ignore that PAC 12 games have been no better on FS1. Also, you completely ignore the fact that there are very few viable public additions and even then they aren't the kind of name brands you are speaking of. The fact is, the Big East is what it is. Even if we add VCU & Wichita St. (which are both 2nd tier brands at best) then we are still a conference with 10/12 schools being private (primarily catholic) basketball schools. The fact is that we can't judge the relevancy of the Big East in a small 3 year span. 10 years from now it will be more apparent whether this conference can succeed and keep pace with the P5. Wichita St. and VCU aren't going to change that.

Again, please keep your rants to this thread because the rest of us are trying to enjoy this conference which we are proud of. And to have you constantly fixating on the one perceivable weakness of the conference in spite of all its accomplishments has elevated you to by far the most annoying poster on this board (sorry stever.)

I will respond once again and then shelve this comment until more data arises.

In terms of Creighton, none of your points addresses my concerns on TV draw. Nebraska (and I'm giving Creighton credit for pulling across Nebraska) is a small and football oriented state. It adds little TV draw. Not to mention Creighton is paired with Providence as a travel partner which is brutal for most teams. VCU would have added a bigger school, a bigger more basketball centric state and rational travel partners.

Again you are using basketball metrics when I'm talking Championship Game ratings which were on Fox not Fox Sports 1. It is one data point and certainly not conclusive but should be very concerning. We shall see what happens this year but I am only comparing games on OTA channels to take out cable penetration.

I don't hate the Big East as I want it to stay successful but it has some clear market problems. The situation of the Big East very much parallels the MWC in football which didn't add teams when it should have and relied on a tight group of primarily small market teams.

Marketing is based on affinity. The guy who posted the Big East schools represent their cities comes the closest to posting a valid counterpoint. The problem is your missing Boston and half your schools are in the Midwest where that doesn't apply. If that truely were your market angle adding VCU (Richmond area) would have made more sense then Omaha.

In reality, your angle/market perception is Catholic. Catholic is a problem when the percentages of Catholic baptisms has fallen from 35% of all births in 1965 to 18% in 2014. Not to mention many of those are Hispanic in the South and Southwest. The reason to add VCU and WSU is pointedly to change the affinity from Catholic to something else. (Ideally home to intense basketball rivalries and schools who can and did beat the P5). VCU and Wichita fill that bill. Even in CA, I am aware of the animosity between Creighton and WSU. I suspect GeorgeTown/VCU representing the many dichotomies of Virginia would be equally strong.

In 1979, when the conference was founded, and Northeast cities had large Catholic populations they avoided an all Catholic conference inviting Syracuse, UConn and Rutgers. (I know Rutgers declined). The Big East should follow the same model. Instead, they have become more Catholic as the country had become less. Nothing like marketing into a negative trend.

How about shelving everything for about 10 years!!

Sactowndog wrote:

DudeAnon wrote:Considering you have decided to riddle every thread with your trolling I think it would be easier to address it in its own thread.

So lets take a look at your arguments and just keep them here.

1) Creighton was a bad addition

So far in the NBE Creighton has made the tournament once, given us the NPOY and is now ranked in the top 10. Its also funny that a Butler fan would make this argument because they draw less than half as many fans as Creighton does.

2) We should be adding public schools

Um, which ones? Wichita St. and VCU are the only publics that are an arguable fit that would want to join currently. And neither totally elevates the brand, we would be adding public schools just for the sake of it.

3) BE is a failure as seen by its ratings

What is your comparison? FS1 ratings (while poor) have increased every year and the PAC-12 games (which are large public schools) that are aired have gotten worse ratings than the BE.

You seem to be fixated on public schools being the magic pill for the NBE. But nothing you say is proven to be true, just your own obnoxious opinion. You claim the BE is a failure. Almost every basketball metric would disagree, 50% of conference making tourney on average and a national championship in 3 years. You say ratings suck but ignore that PAC 12 games have been no better on FS1. Also, you completely ignore the fact that there are very few viable public additions and even then they aren't the kind of name brands you are speaking of. The fact is, the Big East is what it is. Even if we add VCU & Wichita St. (which are both 2nd tier brands at best) then we are still a conference with 10/12 schools being private (primarily catholic) basketball schools. The fact is that we can't judge the relevancy of the Big East in a small 3 year span. 10 years from now it will be more apparent whether this conference can succeed and keep pace with the P5. Wichita St. and VCU aren't going to change that.

Again, please keep your rants to this thread because the rest of us are trying to enjoy this conference which we are proud of. And to have you constantly fixating on the one perceivable weakness of the conference in spite of all its accomplishments has elevated you to by far the most annoying poster on this board (sorry stever.)

I will respond once again and then shelve this comment until more data arises.

In terms of Creighton, none of your points addresses my concerns on TV draw. Nebraska (and I'm giving Creighton credit for pulling across Nebraska) is a small and football oriented state. It adds little TV draw. Not to mention Creighton is paired with Providence as a travel partner which is brutal for most teams. VCU would have added a bigger school, a bigger more basketball centric state and rational travel partners.

Again you are using basketball metrics when I'm talking Championship Game ratings which were on Fox not Fox Sports 1. It is one data point and certainly not conclusive but should be very concerning. We shall see what happens this year but I am only comparing games on OTA channels to take out cable penetration.

I don't hate the Big East as I want it to stay successful but it has some clear market problems. The situation of the Big East very much parallels the MWC in football which didn't add teams when it should have and relied on a tight group of primarily small market teams.

Marketing is based on affinity. The guy who posted the Big East schools represent their cities comes the closest to posting a valid counterpoint. The problem is your missing Boston and half your schools are in the Midwest where that doesn't apply. If that truely were your market angle adding VCU (Richmond area) would have made more sense then Omaha.

In reality, your angle/market perception is Catholic. Catholic is a problem when the percentages of Catholic baptisms has fallen from 35% of all births in 1965 to 18% in 2014. Not to mention many of those are Hispanic in the South and Southwest. The reason to add VCU and WSU is pointedly to change the affinity from Catholic to something else. (Ideally home to intense basketball rivalries and schools who can and did beat the P5). VCU and Wichita fill that bill. Even in CA, I am aware of the animosity between Creighton and WSU. I suspect GeorgeTown/VCU representing the many dichotomies of Virginia would be equally strong.

In 1979, when the conference was founded, and Northeast cities had large Catholic populations they avoided an all Catholic conference inviting Syracuse, UConn and Rutgers. (I know Rutgers declined). The Big East should follow the same model. Instead, they have become more Catholic as the country had become less. Nothing like marketing into a negative trend.

The second perception, and the one that ESPN tried to push early, is that we became a mid-major in the split. Now, we've shut them up by winning, but you know how short the news cycle is these days. Add a pair of mid-majors? The perception will become (or at least be pushed) that we are mid-majors.

Sactowndog wrote:

DudeAnon wrote:Considering you have decided to riddle every thread with your trolling I think it would be easier to address it in its own thread.

So lets take a look at your arguments and just keep them here.

1) Creighton was a bad addition

So far in the NBE Creighton has made the tournament once, given us the NPOY and is now ranked in the top 10. Its also funny that a Butler fan would make this argument because they draw less than half as many fans as Creighton does.

2) We should be adding public schools

Um, which ones? Wichita St. and VCU are the only publics that are an arguable fit that would want to join currently. And neither totally elevates the brand, we would be adding public schools just for the sake of it.

3) BE is a failure as seen by its ratings

What is your comparison? FS1 ratings (while poor) have increased every year and the PAC-12 games (which are large public schools) that are aired have gotten worse ratings than the BE.

You seem to be fixated on public schools being the magic pill for the NBE. But nothing you say is proven to be true, just your own obnoxious opinion. You claim the BE is a failure. Almost every basketball metric would disagree, 50% of conference making tourney on average and a national championship in 3 years. You say ratings suck but ignore that PAC 12 games have been no better on FS1. Also, you completely ignore the fact that there are very few viable public additions and even then they aren't the kind of name brands you are speaking of. The fact is, the Big East is what it is. Even if we add VCU & Wichita St. (which are both 2nd tier brands at best) then we are still a conference with 10/12 schools being private (primarily catholic) basketball schools. The fact is that we can't judge the relevancy of the Big East in a small 3 year span. 10 years from now it will be more apparent whether this conference can succeed and keep pace with the P5. Wichita St. and VCU aren't going to change that.

Again, please keep your rants to this thread because the rest of us are trying to enjoy this conference which we are proud of. And to have you constantly fixating on the one perceivable weakness of the conference in spite of all its accomplishments has elevated you to by far the most annoying poster on this board (sorry stever.)

I will respond once again and then shelve this comment until more data arises.

In terms of Creighton, none of your points addresses my concerns on TV draw. Nebraska (and I'm giving Creighton credit for pulling across Nebraska) is a small and football oriented state. It adds little TV draw. Not to mention Creighton is paired with Providence as a travel partner which is brutal for most teams. VCU would have added a bigger school, a bigger more basketball centric state and rational travel partners.

Again you are using basketball metrics when I'm talking Championship Game ratings which were on Fox not Fox Sports 1. It is one data point and certainly not conclusive but should be very concerning. We shall see what happens this year but I am only comparing games on OTA channels to take out cable penetration.

I don't hate the Big East as I want it to stay successful but it has some clear market problems. The situation of the Big East very much parallels the MWC in football which didn't add teams when it should have and relied on a tight group of primarily small market teams.

Marketing is based on affinity. The guy who posted the Big East schools represent their cities comes the closest to posting a valid counterpoint. The problem is your missing Boston and half your schools are in the Midwest where that doesn't apply. If that truely were your market angle adding VCU (Richmond area) would have made more sense then Omaha.

In reality, your angle/market perception is Catholic. Catholic is a problem when the percentages of Catholic baptisms has fallen from 35% of all births in 1965 to 18% in 2014. Not to mention many of those are Hispanic in the South and Southwest. The reason to add VCU and WSU is pointedly to change the affinity from Catholic to something else. (Ideally home to intense basketball rivalries and schools who can and did beat the P5). VCU and Wichita fill that bill. Even in CA, I am aware of the animosity between Creighton and WSU. I suspect GeorgeTown/VCU representing the many dichotomies of Virginia would be equally strong.

In 1979, when the conference was founded, and Northeast cities had large Catholic populations they avoided an all Catholic conference inviting Syracuse, UConn and Rutgers. (I know Rutgers declined). The Big East should follow the same model. Instead, they have become more Catholic as the country had become less. Nothing like marketing into a negative trend.

Didn't you go to Fresno State? And haven't you been pumping Wichita State for years?

Bill Marsh wrote:

Sactowndog wrote:

DudeAnon wrote:Considering you have decided to riddle every thread with your trolling I think it would be easier to address it in its own thread.

So lets take a look at your arguments and just keep them here.

1) Creighton was a bad addition

So far in the NBE Creighton has made the tournament once, given us the NPOY and is now ranked in the top 10. Its also funny that a Butler fan would make this argument because they draw less than half as many fans as Creighton does.

2) We should be adding public schools

Um, which ones? Wichita St. and VCU are the only publics that are an arguable fit that would want to join currently. And neither totally elevates the brand, we would be adding public schools just for the sake of it.

3) BE is a failure as seen by its ratings

What is your comparison? FS1 ratings (while poor) have increased every year and the PAC-12 games (which are large public schools) that are aired have gotten worse ratings than the BE.

You seem to be fixated on public schools being the magic pill for the NBE. But nothing you say is proven to be true, just your own obnoxious opinion. You claim the BE is a failure. Almost every basketball metric would disagree, 50% of conference making tourney on average and a national championship in 3 years. You say ratings suck but ignore that PAC 12 games have been no better on FS1. Also, you completely ignore the fact that there are very few viable public additions and even then they aren't the kind of name brands you are speaking of. The fact is, the Big East is what it is. Even if we add VCU & Wichita St. (which are both 2nd tier brands at best) then we are still a conference with 10/12 schools being private (primarily catholic) basketball schools. The fact is that we can't judge the relevancy of the Big East in a small 3 year span. 10 years from now it will be more apparent whether this conference can succeed and keep pace with the P5. Wichita St. and VCU aren't going to change that.

Again, please keep your rants to this thread because the rest of us are trying to enjoy this conference which we are proud of. And to have you constantly fixating on the one perceivable weakness of the conference in spite of all its accomplishments has elevated you to by far the most annoying poster on this board (sorry stever.)

I will respond once again and then shelve this comment until more data arises.

In terms of Creighton, none of your points addresses my concerns on TV draw. Nebraska (and I'm giving Creighton credit for pulling across Nebraska) is a small and football oriented state. It adds little TV draw. Not to mention Creighton is paired with Providence as a travel partner which is brutal for most teams. VCU would have added a bigger school, a bigger more basketball centric state and rational travel partners.

Again you are using basketball metrics when I'm talking Championship Game ratings which were on Fox not Fox Sports 1. It is one data point and certainly not conclusive but should be very concerning. We shall see what happens this year but I am only comparing games on OTA channels to take out cable penetration.

I don't hate the Big East as I want it to stay successful but it has some clear market problems. The situation of the Big East very much parallels the MWC in football which didn't add teams when it should have and relied on a tight group of primarily small market teams.

Marketing is based on affinity. The guy who posted the Big East schools represent their cities comes the closest to posting a valid counterpoint. The problem is your missing Boston and half your schools are in the Midwest where that doesn't apply. If that truely were your market angle adding VCU (Richmond area) would have made more sense then Omaha.

In reality, your angle/market perception is Catholic. Catholic is a problem when the percentages of Catholic baptisms has fallen from 35% of all births in 1965 to 18% in 2014. Not to mention many of those are Hispanic in the South and Southwest. The reason to add VCU and WSU is pointedly to change the affinity from Catholic to something else. (Ideally home to intense basketball rivalries and schools who can and did beat the P5). VCU and Wichita fill that bill. Even in CA, I am aware of the animosity between Creighton and WSU. I suspect GeorgeTown/VCU representing the many dichotomies of Virginia would be equally strong.

In 1979, when the conference was founded, and Northeast cities had large Catholic populations they avoided an all Catholic conference inviting Syracuse, UConn and Rutgers. (I know Rutgers declined). The Big East should follow the same model. Instead, they have become more Catholic as the country had become less. Nothing like marketing into a negative trend.

Didn't you go to Fresno State? And haven't you been pumping Wichita State for years?

No I went to Pomona College but I have been a Fresno fan for years. Hard to follow D3 football. And yes I felt the all private Catholic league was a bad idea from the start. And yes if you are going to invite Creighton then the league would be well served to invite Wichita also.

I largely dropped the point and frankly rarely visit this site. But the new data, at least to me, of the Championship game ratings is a confirming data point to something that has always appeared to be a problem. No way should the Big East Championship game be drawing less than the MWC, AAC and A10. Pointing out your better than the PAC-10 isn't exactly a counter point given the PAC has their own problems. Can't get their network on direct TV. Championship game on Friday night and marginal ratings.

I was curious if attitudes might be changing but clearly they aren't. The fans here remind me of engineers super excited about the specs of their product and pooh pooh the fact it isn't selling. None of us and especially Butler has the cash from attendance to support basketball at this level without the TV revenue. That revenue won't be there without ratings. I think it's fixable if you change your perception. But as long as you are the Catholic league, I suspect your ratings will be poor. Eventually that will catch up with the league.

Sactowndog wrote:
In reality, your angle/market perception is Catholic. Catholic is a problem when the percentages of Catholic baptisms has fallen from 35% of all births in 1965 to 18% in 2014. Not to mention many of those are Hispanic in the South and Southwest. The reason to add VCU and WSU is pointedly to change the affinity from Catholic to something else. (Ideally home to intense basketball rivalries and schools who can and did beat the P5). VCU and Wichita fill that bill. Even in CA, I am aware of the animosity between Creighton and WSU. I suspect GeorgeTown/VCU representing the many dichotomies of Virginia would be equally strong.

In 1979, when the conference was founded, and Northeast cities had large Catholic populations they avoided an all Catholic conference inviting Syracuse, UConn and Rutgers. (I know Rutgers declined). The Big East should follow the same model. Instead, they have become more Catholic as the country had become less. Nothing like marketing into a negative trend.

Like I said, just go away man.

When college basketball fans think of Big East basketball - the last thing they think about is Catholicism and the rate of Catholic baptisms.

The Big East has significantly better ratings on FS1 and FOX than the PAC 12. Period. The Big East is flourishing right now. There is no "Catholic" problem with the Big East except in your own alternate-reality. Just go away and watch Fresno State and Wyoming games because you find those programs so "compelling"

Xavier4036 wrote:

Sactowndog wrote:
In reality, your angle/market perception is Catholic. Catholic is a problem when the percentages of Catholic baptisms has fallen from 35% of all births in 1965 to 18% in 2014. Not to mention many of those are Hispanic in the South and Southwest. The reason to add VCU and WSU is pointedly to change the affinity from Catholic to something else. (Ideally home to intense basketball rivalries and schools who can and did beat the P5). VCU and Wichita fill that bill. Even in CA, I am aware of the animosity between Creighton and WSU. I suspect GeorgeTown/VCU representing the many dichotomies of Virginia would be equally strong.

In 1979, when the conference was founded, and Northeast cities had large Catholic populations they avoided an all Catholic conference inviting Syracuse, UConn and Rutgers. (I know Rutgers declined). The Big East should follow the same model. Instead, they have become more Catholic as the country had become less. Nothing like marketing into a negative trend.

Like I said, just go away man.

When college basketball fans think of Big East basketball - the last thing they think about is Catholicism and the rate of Catholic baptisms.

The Big East has significantly better ratings on FS1 and FOX than the PAC 12. Period. The Big East is flourishing right now. There is no "Catholic" problem with the Big East except in your own alternate-reality. Just go away and watch Fresno State and Wyoming games because you find those programs so "compelling"

Who cares if you are better than the PAC-12. No one cares about the PAC-12 in much of California. Cal and UCLA now offer 12% of their admission slots to foreign students. Cal only offers 9,800 slots to California students and in a state as large as CA that's nothing. Your championship game numbers are what they are. Among the worst of D1A leagues.

Here is PAC -12 attendance figures

http://www.bruinsnation.com/2014/2/25/5 ... s-than-our