Big East - General Recruiting Thread

[GumbyDamnit!]

I think that's the key. Getting guys in that 21-50 range.
but look at this trend- 21-50 guys from Rivals Composite
2013- 3 (plus #51!)
2014- 3
2015- 2
2016- 1 (plus #52)

Top 40 classes last 3 years
2014- 5 with 4 top 25
2015- 4 with 1 top 25
2016- 5 with 2 top 25

now this year isn't over yet- but still the top 25 classes that were there in '14 aren't there in '15 and '16. It's possible '16 could wind up with only 1 as you have a team at #24. Sorry, but that differentiated advantage just isn't working. Big East hasn't seen an uptick in recruiting, if anything, it's dropped.

You keep parsing the data any way you want to make your argument Stever. We know you are no fan of the BE. Here are some other data points to chew on...

In the 4 recruiting cycles prior to the BE formation (2009-2012) the 10 current BE schools brought in the following:

Top 25 players = 6
26 - 100 players = 28

In the last 4 recruiting cycles since the BE was formed:

Top 25 players = 6
26-100 players = 30

So, yes there has been an uptick.


But behind the #'s it gets more interesting...

Villanova and SJU, by the numbers, have seen a drop in overall #'s of Top 25 and Top 100 recruits since formation (sure hasn't seemed to hurt the #1 team in the land, but has hurt SJU). But X, Creighton, Marq & SHU have all seen increases. So specifically with 2 of the 3 new additions you have seen a dramatic uptick in recruiting since their change in conference. In CU's case, I didn't even factor in 2017 which already sees two players in the Top 50--something that they have not done probably ever. G'town, Prov., Butler & DePaul have basically stayed the same.

Also you like to point at our recruiting vs the P5 but fail to recognize that the ACC, SEC and B10 have significantly more teams than we do. So when the BE gets 7-8 Top 100 kids in a given year and the ACC gets 12-13 you seem satisfied that it tells a story. The only story it is actually telling is that the ACC has more teams than we do.

[stever20]

If the ACC gets 13 guys and BE gets 7 guys. ACC would be 13/15- or about 0.86 per team, while BE is 0.70 per team.... But the problem there- top 50 in the 2016 rivals composite- ACC 14, BE 1(Ponds is #52). top 100 ACC 22 BE 7. So it's more like 1.46 for the ACC to 0.70 for the BE.

Also once again, you can not count 2013 in the NBE. The NBE wasn't around when the 2013 recruiting class was done. All the guys that signed did so before the split.....

[NovaBall]

recruiting has been great for the big east.

Sure, compare us to Kentucky, Louisville, UNC and Duke, and everyone trails. Whatever. All I care about is that quality players are interested in playing at Villanova. And they continue to be, just as much as they were when we were paired up with Cuse and UConn. The recruiting is actually more focused and stable these days than ten years ago.

[GumbyDamnit!]

If the ACC gets 13 guys and BE gets 7 guys. ACC would be 13/15- or about 0.86 per team, while BE is 0.70 per team.... But the problem there- top 50 in the 2016 rivals composite- ACC 14, BE 1(Ponds is #52). top 100 ACC 22 BE 7. So it's more like 1.46 for the ACC to 0.70 for the BE.

Also once again, you can not count 2013 in the NBE. The NBE wasn't around when the 2013 recruiting class was done. All the guys that signed did so before the split.....

You again are wrong. The BE was effectively torn apart when Syracuse, L'ville and Pitt decided to jump ship. That was first reported in Sept of 2011--long before the class of 2013 signed anywhere. In December of 2012 the C7 announced that they intended to split from the rest of the BE. So even though the new BE was not officially formed recruits knew full well what they were signing up for. And actually what happened after the announcement of adding X, CU and Butler only cements that the new conference has positively affected recruiting. In the class of the 2013 X had 1 player in the Top 100 and CU and Butler had zero. The next 3 years is when we saw the recruiting pick up for each.

Secondly I LOVE how you only looked at the 2016 recruiting class to make your point. Let look at the 2014 recruiting class. That year the ACC brought in 18 Top 100 kids; the BE brought in 13. So the BE brought in 1.3 per school and the ACC 1.2. See I can cherry pick # too.

[stever20]

If the ACC gets 13 guys and BE gets 7 guys. ACC would be 13/15- or about 0.86 per team, while BE is 0.70 per team.... But the problem there- top 50 in the 2016 rivals composite- ACC 14, BE 1(Ponds is #52). top 100 ACC 22 BE 7. So it's more like 1.46 for the ACC to 0.70 for the BE.

Also once again, you can not count 2013 in the NBE. The NBE wasn't around when the 2013 recruiting class was done. All the guys that signed did so before the split.....

You again are wrong. The BE was effectively torn apart when Syracuse, L'ville and Pitt decided to jump ship. That was first reported in Sept of 2011--long before the class of 2013 signed anywhere. In December of 2012 the C7 announced that they intended to split from the rest of the BE. So even though the new BE was not officially formed recruits knew full well what they were signing up for. And actually what happened after the announcement of adding X, CU and Butler only cements that the new conference has positively affected recruiting. In the class of the 2013 X had 1 player in the Top 100 and CU and Butler had zero. The next 3 years is when we saw the recruiting pick up for each.

Secondly I LOVE how you only looked at the 2016 recruiting class to make your point. Let look at the 2014 recruiting class. That year the ACC brought in 18 Top 100 kids; the BE brought in 13. So the BE brought in 1.3 per school and the ACC 1.2. See I can cherry pick # too.

The split was announced in December of 2012. Recruits signed in November of 2012, before the split was even announced....

And how many kids did ACC/BE bring in 2015? ACC 19, BE 7.

So
2014 18-13
2015 19-7
2016 22-7

So how is the trend going again? ACC unfortunately is getting more guys while the BE is stagnant at best.

[GumbyDamnit!]

The split was announced in December of 2012. Recruits signed in November of 2012, before the split was even announced....

It's amazing how often you are just flat out wrong. Take a close look at the date of the article Skippy.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/09/syracuse_pittsburgh_leave_big.html

[stever20]

The split was announced in December of 2012. Recruits signed in November of 2012, before the split was even announced....

It's amazing how often you are just flat out wrong. Take a close look at the date of the article Skippy.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/09/syracuse_pittsburgh_leave_big.html

The split was announced on Dec 15, 2012.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketb ... d-to-split

Recruits would have signed 5-6 weeks prior to that(before Louisville had left the conference).

[GumbyDamnit!]

The split was announced in December of 2012. Recruits signed in November of 2012, before the split was even announced....

And how many kids did ACC/BE bring in 2015? ACC 19, BE 7.

So
2014 18-13
2015 19-7
2016 22-7

So how is the trend going again? ACC unfortunately is getting more guys while the BE is stagnant at best.

No doubt that the ACC is a tough conference to recruit against. But let me give you some 2nd level type of analysis and I'll wait for you to explain to me how awful we are again...

In the 4 recruiting cycles since the BE was formed we brought in 38 Top 100 recruits or roughly 1.0 recruits per team per year. The ACC conversely brought in 73 or 1.2 per team per year. Significant? Maybe. For the BE to equal the ACC mark we would have had to bring in 2 more Top 100 players per year total over the last 4 years. Not sure if that is significant or not, or if it just states that the ACC is considered by recruits as THE top conference but the BE is also highly coveted. I can accept that.

But let's dive into the #'s a little bit more. What if we just looked at the 4 blue blood programs: Duke, UNC, 'Cuse and L'ville. Out of those 73 recruits the ACC brought in, these 4 programs brought in 43 of them. So 2.7 recruits per year for the 4 teams that have always been excellent recruiters. The rest of the conference? They brought in a pedestrian .68 Top 100 recruits per team per year, which I don't have to tell you is far behind the BE. My point: I don't think anyone expected the BE teams to become Carolina and Duke overnight on the recruiting trail. But they certainly wanted to be better than other teams that are historically more on their level. I think that tells a story, which is the traditional ACC powers (with their aging HOF coaches) are still great on the recruiting trail. Conference realignment hasn't changed they way Cuse or L'ville recruited while in the BE and Duke and Carolina continue to be great places for top talent to play (just like they've been for the past 30 years).

For comparison purposes this is how we stack up vs the B10 which is probably considered a Top 3 conference. They share the BE's ratio of 1.0 Top 100 players per team per year. So do you want to keep peddling that the Big East is having difficulty recruiting or are we about done here?

Go back and crunch some more #'s to fit your anti-BE agenda.

[stever20]

In the Rivals Composite last 4 years...
2013- ACC 16 BE 10 B10 14
2014- ACC 18 BE 13 B10 11
2015 ACC 19 BE 7 B10 15
2016 ACC 22 BE 7 B10 13

so in the 4 years- ACC 75, BE 37 B10 53. Per school per year- ACC 1.25 BE 0.93 B10 0.95...
but 1st 2 years- ACC 34, BE 23 B10 25. Per school per year- ACC 1.13 BE 1.15 B10 0.89...
2nd 2 years- ACC 41, BE 14, B10 28. Per school per year- ACC 1.37 BE 0.70 B10 1.00

So how is the trend going better for the Big East exactly? 1st 2 years were MUCH better than these last 2 have been. You want to focus on the 2013 and 2014 seasons like they speak totally for the recruiting.

Trust me- I hate this- I don't like the ACC at all. But they do recruit. You can't deny that.

[GumbyDamnit!]

The split was announced in December of 2012. Recruits signed in November of 2012, before the split was even announced....

It's amazing how often you are just flat out wrong. Take a close look at the date of the article Skippy.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/09/syracuse_pittsburgh_leave_big.html

The split was announced on Dec 15, 2012.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketb ... d-to-split

Recruits would have signed 5-6 weeks prior to that(before Louisville had left the conference).

In Sept of 2011 the Big East as we know it was over. Everyone knew what was going down. Those recruits decided to come to those (current) BE schools knowing full well that Pitt, Syracuse and L'ville were gone and the "BE" was never going to be the same dominant BB conference that it had been the 3 decades before. So stop with the" "recruits came to Nova, G'town and Marq thinking they'd be coming into the glory years of the BE conference." That's just not accurate.