Sat. Dec. 29, 2018 (4) Big East Games....

[billyfa]

The whistle shouldn't have been blown and obviously that was a huge break for the Hall, but the way they then handled the situation is what really turned it into a mess. They claimed it was a clock issue (perhaps it started a hair late, but no later than normal human reaction time IMO) but handled it like an inadvertent whistle. To those saying it should have gone to the possession arrow, I unfortunately see nothing supporting that in the NCAA Basketball rule book (if any of you know where it is, please correct me). What I see in the rule book is - since at the time of the inadvertent whistle, SJU had not gained possession yet, it was still considered in SHU possession and the ball had to be returned to them. Basically the only time when there is considered to be no team possession is after a shot attempt when nobody has secured the rebound yet. A deflected/loose ball is still considered to belong to the last team to have control of it (hence why loose ball scenarios don't reset the shot clock if the offense recovers it). Again, it still sucks for SJU because they almost certainly would have gained possession if the whistle didn't go, but at the time of the whistle they didn't have it yet.


I guess my point...it ultimately wouldn't have changed anything and wouldn't really make SJU fans feel any better about it, but rather than using the clock excuse the refs should have just admit it was an inadvertent whistle and said "sorry, we screwed up, this is how the rules require we handle it."

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvovwlYUUAAMxmK.jpg

Think it falls under c although I’m not positive. And if it fall under C it goes to the possession arrow.

[Hall2012]

Okay I changed my mind, I feel bad for Johnnies fans except Mayhem. With ridiculous takes like that, I'm actually laughing at his misery.

I’m glad you can separate him from the rest of the fans lol. Seton hall is a good, and exciting team that is OVERACHIEVING. That is something that St. John’s never does. We never overachieve, so I think mullinmayhem is just projecting his feelings of jealousy on seton hall for doing more with a team that was under estimated before the season.

Good luck to you guys, my beef is with the refs last night, not with your team and your program. You are doing a great job

I know that the majority of you guys are reasonable, and that's part of why I'm on here being sympathetic rather than trying to rub your noses in it. You have every right to be pissed at the refs, I would be too if it was the other way around.

One thing that I do think is getting lost a little bit is that even after the bad whistle, SJU was still the odds on favorite to win. SHU had to make a play to get a bucket in 3.4 seconds for it to matter and they deserve credit for getting that done. Mayhem's acting like the ref put the ball (and their other 73 points) in the basket for them. I feel a bit for Shavar having hit the shot of his life as a former walk-on to win it, and all anyone wants to talk about is the refs.

SJU has a great team this year -Willard said that was the toughest team they've played yet, Kentucky included, and I believe that was sincere. Despite the unfortunate controversy at the end, the game lived up to it's billing and I'm hoping for at least 2 more meetings this year (imagine a Big East final? It doesn't look unrealistic at the moment). A lively SHU-SJU rivalry would be great for the league. They basically haven't been good at the same time since the point shaving scandal crushed SHU's program.

[Hall2012]

The whistle shouldn't have been blown and obviously that was a huge break for the Hall, but the way they then handled the situation is what really turned it into a mess. They claimed it was a clock issue (perhaps it started a hair late, but no later than normal human reaction time IMO) but handled it like an inadvertent whistle. To those saying it should have gone to the possession arrow, I unfortunately see nothing supporting that in the NCAA Basketball rule book (if any of you know where it is, please correct me). What I see in the rule book is - since at the time of the inadvertent whistle, SJU had not gained possession yet, it was still considered in SHU possession and the ball had to be returned to them. Basically the only time when there is considered to be no team possession is after a shot attempt when nobody has secured the rebound yet. A deflected/loose ball is still considered to belong to the last team to have control of it (hence why loose ball scenarios don't reset the shot clock if the offense recovers it). Again, it still sucks for SJU because they almost certainly would have gained possession if the whistle didn't go, but at the time of the whistle they didn't have it yet.


I guess my point...it ultimately wouldn't have changed anything and wouldn't really make SJU fans feel any better about it, but rather than using the clock excuse the refs should have just admit it was an inadvertent whistle and said "sorry, we screwed up, this is how the rules require we handle it."

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvovwlYUUAAMxmK.jpg

Think it falls under c although I’m not positive. And if it fall under C it goes to the possession arrow.

Thanks for sharing. I believe scenario's C and D here are specifically referring to shot attempts. Possession is considered to be lost on a shot attempt, but on a loose ball from something like a deflected pass it's still considered to be in possession of the last team to control it. At least that's how I understand the rule.

[kayako]

To be totally honest though Mullin is not a coach and never will be. This team will probably finish 9-9 or 10-8 at absolute best and miss the tournament. Fire Mullin, fire the refs, and start over...again.

Relax the first loss is always a tough pill to swallow

[SJUBBALL]

I thought we were gonna lose last night before the game. I had a feeling we would, and it hurts, but I still think St. John’s dances this year

[Hall2012]

Big East Statement on the SJU-SHU finish:

The BIG EAST Conference has conducted a thorough review of the final 3.9 seconds of the St. John’s at Seton Hall men’s basketball game played on December 29. The official has confirmed to the Conference Office that he stopped play based on a perceived delay in the activation of the game clock following an inbounds pass by Seton Hall. This was a non-correctable judgment call that we have determined was an error in judgment by the official. Once the judgment call was made, however, the application and administration of all NCAA rules were handled correctly by the officials for the duration of the game. These included the following:

A video review on the basis of a timing error. NCAA rules do not permit officials to make assessments or provide rulings on other components of the play.
Possession of the ball being given to Seton Hall.
A permissible substitution by Seton Hall.
In addition, there have been media reports and speculation regarding NCAA rules pertaining to “inadvertent whistles” and the role of the possession arrow in determining possession of the ball in this situation. To be clear, the whistle in this case was not inadvertent, but intentional. However, if there had been an inadvertent whistle, NCAA rules would have awarded possession to Seton Hall (Rule 6-4.1.g.).

BIG EAST officials, who are among the most capable in college basketball, are held to the highest standards and are rigorously evaluated on play-calling and application of rules. The Conference Office remains committed to ensuring that our games are officiated in a manner commensurate with the high level of competition in our league and the intensity displayed by all of our member programs.

Obviously the initial blowing of the whistle was incorrect - that's indisputable. But I'm glad they cleared up a couple things including the "illegal substitution" myth and the erroneous thought that it should have gone to the possession arrow. Perhaps the arrow would have seemed more fair given the circumstance, but there was nothing in the rulebook at that allowed for it. Not that it should make SJU fans feel any better - the initial whistle was still inexcusable.

[billyjack]

Really was an excellent game.

The conference just released a statement calling it an error in judgement by the refs, conceding that St John's got screwed. They're not changing the outcome of course, but they're agreeing that SJU should have won if not for the screw-up.

I actually support the conference being honest, admitting that a mistake was made, and living in reality. I think it's the best way to deal with the situation. i can see someone like idiot Roger Goodell putting blinders on, insulting our intelligence and treating the refs' call as something that made sense. If course, the not-so-intelligent AP voters will not factor this in when they vote again next week.

It was a fantastic game and both teams deserved to win, and in a sense they both did. I think both teams will be shoo-ins for the NCAA's, and maybe the committee will take this outcome into consideration when seeding St John's.

https://amp.app.com/amp/2451880002?__tw ... ssion=true

[billyjack]

Ok i honestly mistakenly deleted a post from Stever 10 seconds ago that i can't retrieve.

Basically that [paraphrasing] "the bad call against the Johnnies is offset by the VCU final shot call"... though that VCU play wasn't a ref-whistle f-ck up, it was the refs judgement, so it has zero to do with anything, and it wasn't a foul anyway, and now i'm glad that i accidentally deleted his stupid comment.

Any future comments about the VCU final play will not be approved. Thank you.

[REDMEN1415]

https://nypost.com/2018/12/31/big-east- ... -st-johns/

[Hall2012]

I take a little bit of issue with Zach's headline there. The Big East didn't screw St. John's - Michael Stephens did. Stephens was obviously wrong to blow the whistle, but what does Zach want the league to do? Unfortunately we don't currently have the ability to rewind time and pull the whistle out of his mouth, so they proceeded in the only way the rules allowed.