Big East Conference Realignment v2018

[Hall2012]

Just so we are clear. Here is how I would rank the Big East in tiers with all realistic candidates added.

1) Nova, Xavier, WSU

2) Creighton, Butler, VCU

3) Seton Hall, Providence, Dayton

4) Georgetown, Marquette, St. John's, DePaul, UConn

Anyone disagree with this? If so, what specifically do you disagree with? Georgetown and Marquette may be shocked to see themselves that low. But that is the current state of their program and I don't see it changing any time soon.

By the way, this would be a great conference and arguably more competitive than the one we have now.

Based on what time frame?

[DudeAnon]

Just so we are clear. Here is how I would rank the Big East in tiers with all realistic candidates added.

1) Nova, Xavier, WSU

2) Creighton, Butler, VCU

3) Seton Hall, Providence, Dayton

4) Georgetown, Marquette, St. John's, DePaul, UConn

Anyone disagree with this? If so, what specifically do you disagree with? Georgetown and Marquette may be shocked to see themselves that low. But that is the current state of their program and I don't see it changing any time soon.

By the way, this would be a great conference and arguably more competitive than the one we have now.

Are you basing this off of right now in the moment or including recent history? Those are two completely different things for some of these programs. Nova deserves to be in a class by themselves. Wichita has always been overrated and they've shown that going from the Valley to the AAC. If they were in the Big East they'd be similar to Seton Hall, Providence, Butler and Creighton. Butler if you included recent history you could have above Creighton, Seton Hall and Providence because of tournament wins but they just lost their head coach so we'll see if Jordan keeps up that standard. VCU just lost their coach and is struggling this year so if you're looking at the programs right now they don't deserve to be that high. Same can be said for Dayton as well. Here would be my rankings which is more weighted on the program right now with recent history also in mind.

1. Nova
- Best by far. As long as Jay stays they'll stay up here.
2. Xavier
- Second best by far when considering regular and post season success. Would obviously fall if Mack leaves.
3. Butler, Creighton, Providence, Seton Hall, WSU
- All have different positives and negatives but on the whole these teams are on the same level. Consistent tournament teams but not consistently into the second weekend.
4. Marquette
- On the up with the team being almost all underclassmen. Still need to scrape a tournament appearance this year to keep momentum and then next season is really make or break time for Wojo.
5. VCU, Dayton
- Both recently lost their coaches and won't make the tourney this year. Could easily climb if the new coaches get them back to making the tourney regularly.
6. Georgetown, UConn, St. John's, DePaul.
- I rank Georgetown first in this group since they've got the new coach hope. UConn I would think would join that group as they've got to fire Ollie. Both programs are playing way below their level for how much money they put into their programs. St John's got a tough break this year with Lovett but Mullin appears to be a horrible coach. If they don't improve next year he'll be out soon. Depaul got a new arena but made a terrible coaching hire. It doesn't even seem like they care about having a good program.

I am basing it on where the program is currently and where I see it in the future.

1) Nova is the best, but not by far. As much as Jay has dominated the league, he hasn't translated that success into recruiting wins. Xavier is recruiting as well if not better than Villanova. And let us not forget, they have bombed in the tournament every year but 2016.

2) WSU has the record and recent successes to be in the top tier. Combine that with their fan-support and I think they are here to stay as a top tier program.

3) I don't put Seton Hall and Providence on the same level as Butler and Creighton. Seton Hall is going to take a massive drop next year when their famed recruiting class leaves. Providence has Cooley but for some reason they seem to be stuck in the "good not great" gear. I also think the fan support of both these programs and is somewhat below Creighton, Butler and VCU.

4) Wojo is bad, they extended him to 2023, it might be a while before Marquette is good again.

5) VCU and Dayton are down right now, but with their fan-support they will always be a mid-tier team just by the crowds they bring.

6) I think UConn has the best chance (but only a chance, there is no evidence these programs can survive coaching changes) of these to make a return to relevance, then Georgetown. The other two are doomed.

[Bluejay]

When choosing conference members, university presidents look at more than just basketball program success. Other issues include academics, location, reputation, and TV value.

[_lh]

The Big is perfect with 10 teams. There is no need to expand unless UCONN, Notre Dame or Kansas become available. The other "options" all have major warts and would join the BE at anytime.

[GumbyDamnit!]

I am basing it on where the program is currently and where I see it in the future.

1) Nova is the best, but not by far. As much as Jay has dominated the league, he hasn't translated that success into recruiting wins. Xavier is recruiting as well if not better than Villanova. And let us not forget, they have bombed in the tournament every year but 2016.

Bombed in the tournament? This is rich coming from a fan of a team that has not challenged them once for the league title nor made a FF. Jay W. has made 2 FF's in the past decade and has a NC; X has not made one FF ever. Since the current BE has been formed no team has won more tourney games and at least 1 tourney game each year, other than Nova.

Recruiting success? Really? Brunson and Spellman were 5 stars. Are there any other 5 star recruits in this league that I don't know about? The rest of their roster is littered with 4 star players. 2018 class has two 4 star players already committed and there are strong rumors of another 5 star possibly joining soon. And who does X have coming in again next year?

Really Dude what are you talking about?

[butlerguy03]

There really seems to be some anti-Butler sentiment on this thread. As a Butler fan, I love to hate Xavier, but completely understand the importance the Musketeers have within the conference and respect their last 25 years as a program. You could justify saying Butler and Xavier were the main reasons the conference survived the split (no disrespect, Villanova). Putting Butler in a lower category with schools that struggle to win games in March or even get in the tournament is a disservice to the program. Using metrics like attendance (Hinkle holds 9,100 and we WILL NEVER play outside of Hinkle), seems like grasping for data to back your claim.

[DudeAnon]

The Big is perfect with 10 teams. There is no need to expand unless UCONN, Notre Dame or Kansas become available. The other "options" all have major warts and would join the BE at anytime.

I think we need to strike while the iron is hot. The Big East currently is regarded as a high-major conference without debate. But I think that is a mix respect for the legacy programs like (Marquette and Georgetown) plus acknowledged success of the new programs. Eventually the respect for Marquette and Georgetown will dissipate if they maintain their current trajectory. At that point, the Big East will be known as Nova, Xavier, Creighton and Butler.

I guess my point is, rather than try and revive the OBE teams we should focus on lifting up programs in their place. I have much more faith in UD, WSU and VCU to help the conference than I do in Georgetown or Marquette at this point. Georgetown and Marquette's brands are helping us, but that will only help so long. Eventually, new reputations are formed. 10 years ago, every C7 school would've scoffed at Butler, now they are getting beaten by them on the regular.

The C7 got it right in adding Creighton, Butler and Xavier. It is time to get it right again while the iron is hot.

[DudeAnon]

There really seems to be some anti-Butler sentiment on this thread. As a Butler fan, I love to hate Xavier, but completely understand the importance the Musketeers have within the conference and respect their last 25 years as a program. You could justify saying Butler and Xavier were the main reasons the conference survived the split (no disrespect, Villanova). Putting Butler in a lower category with schools that struggle to win games in March or even get in the tournament is a disservice to the program. Using metrics like attendance (Hinkle holds 9,100 and we WILL NEVER play outside of Hinkle), seems like grasping for data to back your claim.

I have Butler in the second tier with just Creighton currently. I think that is pretty high praise. Don't get me wrong, I love Butler. They really do seem to have some kind of magic that pushes them through what should be down years. I just don't think they are quite on the same level as Xavier.

[BigmanU]

Just so we are clear. Here is how I would rank the Big East in tiers with all realistic candidates added.

1) Nova, Xavier, WSU

2) Creighton, Butler, VCU

3) Seton Hall, Providence, Dayton

4) Georgetown, Marquette, St. John's, DePaul, UConn

Anyone disagree with this? If so, what specifically do you disagree with? Georgetown and Marquette may be shocked to see themselves that low. But that is the current state of their program and I don't see it changing any time soon.

By the way, this would be a great conference and arguably more competitive than the one we have now.

You are delusional.

Think about a football 5 conferences poaching for basketball in order. Historical prestige, location, eyes on TV's & (wayyy lesser extent) recent history are all that matter. I might get total disagreement on this, but the tiers would be something like this.

1) Nova

2) Georgetown , UConn, St. Johns

3) Xavier, Marquette, Seton Hall

4) Providence, Creighton, Butler, DePaul

5) Dayton, VCU

6) WSU

What casual fan (outside their market) is running to the tube to see WSU, Dayton and VCU?

[DudeAnon]

I am basing it on where the program is currently and where I see it in the future.

1) Nova is the best, but not by far. As much as Jay has dominated the league, he hasn't translated that success into recruiting wins. Xavier is recruiting as well if not better than Villanova. And let us not forget, they have bombed in the tournament every year but 2016.

Bombed in the tournament? This is rich coming from a fan of a team that has not challenged them once for the league title nor made a FF. Jay W. has made 2 FF's in the past decade and has a NC; X has not made one FF ever. Since the current BE has been formed no team has won more tourney games and at least 1 tourney game each year, other than Nova.

Recruiting success? Really? Brunson and Spellman were 5 stars. Are there any other 5 star recruits in this league that I don't know about? The rest of their roster is littered with 4 star players. 2018 class has two 4 star players already committed and there are strong rumors of another 5 star possibly joining soon. And who does X have coming in again next year?

Really Dude what are you talking about?

In the NBE Jay Wright and his Wildcats are shooting %25 on getting out of the first weekend. The whole league is recruiting well, but not great. Xavier had the best recruiting class this year and I wouldn't be surprised to see them near the top in the prior/future years.

Look, Nova is top dog. But I don't think they are stratospheres away from Xavier. Jay Wright ain't the pope, he has his flaws. In my opinion, its tournament play and recruiting. Don't be so sensitive.