Selection Sunday Discussion

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Re: Selection Sunday Discussion

Postby stever20 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:21 pm

a few of the first 4 out I can really see teams 2-4 out.....
South Carolina had only 1 win vs top 50 this year....
Monmouth had 3 losses to teams outside the top 200....
Valpo also had only 1 win vs top 50 this year

but the 1st team out.....
St Bonnies had 3 top 50 wins. 7 top 100

Tulsa had 4 top 50 wins and 8 top 100 wins. also had a better OOC SOS and a better OOC win in Wichita.

like Patrick Stevens said on twitter tonight-
Tulsa had a fairly nondescript profile. Not much overly great, not much all that bad. A perfectly fine last team or two to get in.

what is strange about it- and it's moving the goalposts... like Stevens said earlier today about St Bonnies- advanced metrics killed them.
Regular-season co-champ in the A-10, but killed by advanced metrics. The road wins (Dayton and Saint Joe's) loom large.

in Ken Pom- SB was 79 and Tulsa 58. But Temple was 86.
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Re: Selection Sunday Discussion

Postby DudeAnon » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:22 pm

f--- the P5

@GarryParrishCBS

Every eligible Power 5 school with a top-54 RPI made the NCAA Tournament. But eight non-Power 5 schools with top-54 RPIs did not.
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Re: Selection Sunday Discussion

Postby mpwalsh8 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:26 pm

kmacker69 wrote:Looks like I'll get to see both Butler and Providence in Raleigh! :D :D :D :D


Me too. My seats are in Section 101. Happy to see the Raleigh games don't conflict with Villanova's schedule.
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Re: Selection Sunday Discussion

Postby DudeAnon » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:26 pm

This advanced metrics stuff is bullsh--. RPI is really the only fair metric out there. St. Bonaventure should've been in. We need to go BCS model and make the RPI 2/3 of the calculation then human vote for the last 1/3rd.

Stop trying to justify the P5 f---ing over everyone else stever. I know you are new to this, but Georgetown is no longer a member of the P5 and could very easily be fucked just like SBU was tonight.
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Re: Selection Sunday Discussion

Postby stever20 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:28 pm

DudeAnon wrote:f--- the P5

@GarryParrishCBS

Every eligible Power 5 school with a top-54 RPI made the NCAA Tournament. But eight non-Power 5 schools with top-54 RPIs did not.

and the 8-
30 St Bonnies
34 Akron
38 St Mary's
39 Princeton
45 UNC Wilmington
49 Valpo
52 Monmouth
54 Hofstra

hardly murderers row.

Also last year every P5 team in the RPI top 64 made the tournament. Last year there were 6 non P5 teams that missed the tourney.
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Re: Selection Sunday Discussion

Postby XUFan09 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:31 pm

DudeAnon wrote:This advanced metrics stuff is bullsh--. RPI is really the only fair metric out there. St. Bonaventure should've been in. We need to go BCS model and make the RPI 2/3 of the calculation then human vote for the last 1/3rd.

Stop trying to justify the P5 f---ing over everyone else stever. I know you are new to this, but Georgetown is no longer a member of the P5 and could very easily be fucked just like SBU was tonight.


Considering that the RPI is so inexact that even its creator says that it should only be used for ranges (e.g. 1-25, 101-200, etc), this would be a very bad idea. Also, Kenpom and other advanced metrics are often good to mid-majors, lending future credence to a good profile against a weaker SOS. In the end, though, the advanced metrics didn't have a disproportionate impact on seeding/selection either. They were just another piece of the puzzle, so I don't know why you're railing against them specifically.
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Re: Selection Sunday Discussion

Postby DudeAnon » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:32 pm

stever20 wrote:
DudeAnon wrote:f--- the P5

@GarryParrishCBS

Every eligible Power 5 school with a top-54 RPI made the NCAA Tournament. But eight non-Power 5 schools with top-54 RPIs did not.

and the 8-
30 St Bonnies
34 Akron
38 St Mary's
39 Princeton
45 UNC Wilmington
49 Valpo
52 Monmouth
54 Hofstra

hardly murderers row.

Also last year every P5 team in the RPI top 64 made the tournament. Last year there were 6 non P5 teams that missed the tourney.


"hardly murderers row. " That is bullsh--. Those teams are all quantitatively better than Syracuse and the other P-5 scrubs. You just can't see it because you are the fan of a brand name team. So brand means more than actual accomplishments to you.
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Re: Selection Sunday Discussion

Postby DudeAnon » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:33 pm

XUFan09 wrote:
DudeAnon wrote:This advanced metrics stuff is bullsh--. RPI is really the only fair metric out there. St. Bonaventure should've been in. We need to go BCS model and make the RPI 2/3 of the calculation then human vote for the last 1/3rd.

Stop trying to justify the P5 f---ing over everyone else stever. I know you are new to this, but Georgetown is no longer a member of the P5 and could very easily be fucked just like SBU was tonight.


Considering that the RPI is so inexact that even its creator says that it should only be used for ranges (e.g. 1-25, 101-200, etc), this would be a very bad idea. Also, Kenpom and other advanced metrics are often good to mid-majors, lending future credence to a good profile against a weaker SOS. In the end, though, the advanced metrics didn't have a disproportionate impact on seeding/selection either. They were just another piece of the puzzle, so I don't know why you're railing against them specifically.


The RPI almost tracks perfectly with the NCAA seed list. They just excuse it when they need to make an exception for a P-5 scrub. Whats wrong with the RPI? It values wins and losses, thats all that matters. Advanced metrics favor styles of play and margins of victory, which is pointless.
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Re: Selection Sunday Discussion

Postby stever20 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:33 pm

DudeAnon wrote:This advanced metrics stuff is bullsh--. RPI is really the only fair metric out there. St. Bonaventure should've been in. We need to go BCS model and make the RPI 2/3 of the calculation then human vote for the last 1/3rd.

Stop trying to justify the P5 f---ing over everyone else stever. I know you are new to this, but Georgetown is no longer a member of the P5 and could very easily be fucked just like SBU was tonight.

There were 2 Big East teams 40 and 56 making it....
There were 3 AAC teams 48, 58, and 60 making it

The problem as has been said on here before is you can totally game the RPI. Is there anyone who thinks St Bonnies is 26 spots better than Butler? or South Dakota St is 12 spots better than Providence? No chance.

Also you have the BCS model backwards. It was 2/3 humans, 1/3 computers.
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Re: Selection Sunday Discussion

Postby DudeAnon » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:36 pm

stever20 wrote:
DudeAnon wrote:This advanced metrics stuff is bullsh--. RPI is really the only fair metric out there. St. Bonaventure should've been in. We need to go BCS model and make the RPI 2/3 of the calculation then human vote for the last 1/3rd.

Stop trying to justify the P5 f---ing over everyone else stever. I know you are new to this, but Georgetown is no longer a member of the P5 and could very easily be fucked just like SBU was tonight.

There were 2 Big East teams 40 and 56 making it....
There were 3 AAC teams 48, 58, and 60 making it

The problem as has been said on here before is you can totally game the RPI. Is there anyone who thinks St Bonnies is 26 spots better than Butler? or South Dakota St is 12 spots better than Providence? No chance.

Also you have the BCS model backwards. It was 2/3 humans, 1/3 computers.


AAC and Big East are given some crumbs from the P5 for now. And I do think SBU is 26 spots better than Butler. What evidence is there to the contrary? "Eye test"?
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