Updated HLOH power rankings

[Xudash]

1. Nova
2. X
3. PC
4. Butler
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5. SHU (????)
6. G'Town
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7. Creighton
8. Marquette
9. DePaul
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10. StJ

I agree except that i would swap 7 and 8. Not sure that SJU wins a game; it will certainly not be favored in any BE game. That said, I think that Mullin will have them rocking in another couple of years.

Agreed, but understanding that Providence is the real deal and possibly interchangeable with Xavier.

[stever20]

Really think Butler should be down in that 2nd group.

Really, if Butler and Seton Hall had generic jerseys, and you didn't know which one was Butler and which one was Seton Hall- Seton Hall would be ahead of Butler in pretty much everyone's opinion.

[Jet915]

Really think Butler should be down in that 2nd group.

Really, if Butler and Seton Hall had generic jerseys, and you didn't know which one was Butler and which one was Seton Hall- Seton Hall would be ahead of Butler in pretty much everyone's opinion.

Not sure about that, Butler has very nice wins against Purdue on a neutral floor and @Cincy while Seton Hall has Wichita State and a loss to a decent but not great LBSU...

[stever20]

Really think Butler should be down in that 2nd group.

Really, if Butler and Seton Hall had generic jerseys, and you didn't know which one was Butler and which one was Seton Hall- Seton Hall would be ahead of Butler in pretty much everyone's opinion.

Not sure about that, Butler has very nice wins against Purdue on a neutral floor and @Cincy while Seton Hall has Wichita State and a loss to a decent but not great LBSU...

Thing is they're really close.

now compare to
Nova- with wins over Xavier, @ Creighoton, and even @ St Joe's. and only 2 losses
Xavier- with wins over Michigan, Alabama, USC, Dayton, Cincy, and Butler- and only 1 loss
PC- with wins over Arizona, Rhode island, Evansville, and Butler- and only 1 loss

How is Butler in the 1st group? Even look at the RPI. X, Nova, and PC are 1,2,9. Butler is all the way down at 40. Seton Hall is 42.

[CoachK]

Really, if Butler and Seton Hall had generic jerseys, and you didn't know which one was Butler and which one was Seton Hall- Seton Hall would be ahead of Butler in pretty much everyone's opinion.

Really??

Butler 3 Losses - #8 Providence, #10 Xavier, #12 Miami - no losses to anyone outside of the Top 12.
Seton Hall's 2 Losses - #29 George Washington & Long Beach State, who has a 6-9 record.

Butler's Best Wins - #20 Purdue, #38 Cincinnati.
Seton Hall's Best Wins - #35 Wichita State, ???

So Butler's losses are much better than Seton Hall's losses, Butler has a Top 25 win and Seton Hall doesn't. Butler's losses are all Top 12 teams, Seton Hall lost to a GW team that DePaul destroyed, and a team with a 6-9 record. Generic jerseys, shirts & skins, I don't see how you or anyone else could think Seton Hall should be ahead of Butler at this point.

[stever20]

Really, if Butler and Seton Hall had generic jerseys, and you didn't know which one was Butler and which one was Seton Hall- Seton Hall would be ahead of Butler in pretty much everyone's opinion.

Really??

Butler 3 Losses - #8 Providence, #10 Xavier, #12 Miami - no losses to anyone outside of the Top 12.
Seton Hall's 2 Losses - #29 George Washington & Long Beach State, who has a 6-9 record.

Butler's Best Wins - #20 Purdue, #38 Cincinnati.
Seton Hall's Best Wins - #35 Wichita State, ???

So Butler's losses are much better than Seton Hall's losses, Butler has a Top 25 win and Seton Hall doesn't. Butler's losses are all Top 12 teams, Seton Hall lost to a GW team that DePaul destroyed, and a team with a 6-9 record. Generic jerseys, shirts & skins, I don't see how you or anyone else could think Seton Hall should be ahead of Butler at this point.

maybe not ahead, but no way is Butler in the group with Nova, X, and PC. Those 3 have separated.

[billyjack]

Really, if Butler and Seton Hall had generic jerseys, and you didn't know which one was Butler and which one was Seton Hall- Seton Hall would be ahead of Butler in pretty much everyone's opinion.

Really??

Butler 3 Losses - #8 Providence, #10 Xavier, #12 Miami - no losses to anyone outside of the Top 12.
Seton Hall's 2 Losses - #29 George Washington & Long Beach State, who has a 6-9 record.

Butler's Best Wins - #20 Purdue, #38 Cincinnati.
Seton Hall's Best Wins - #35 Wichita State, ???

So Butler's losses are much better than Seton Hall's losses, Butler has a Top 25 win and Seton Hall doesn't. Butler's losses are all Top 12 teams, Seton Hall lost to a GW team that DePaul destroyed, and a team with a 6-9 record. Generic jerseys, shirts & skins, I don't see how you or anyone else could think Seton Hall should be ahead of Butler at this point.

maybe not ahead, but no way is Butler in the group with Nova, X, and PC. Those 3 have separated.

Butler is still in the group with PC, XU and Villanova.

Basically you were going to place the loser of the Butler-Providence game outside the upper-4. Because if PC lost at Butler you'd have probably banished the Friars with something about only having beaten Arizona, and cited their predicted Ken Pom RPI or something. Butler is a victim of their killer opening schedule week.

You're also chomping at the bit to compare 2016 Butler to 2014 Butler which went 4-14. Very different situation. Different coach, a completely re-tooled roster except for Dunham and Chrabascz, and Big East size.

2016 Dawgs have blown teams out by double digits, even Purdue was 14 points til late.
2014 Dawgs had brass stones and guts, but barely beat Princeton and Ball State and Washington State.

Both seasons they had 7 guys average 15+ minutes.
Both seasons they had the rest of roster in single digit minutes.

2016 has: 7 main guys of Dunham, Chrabascz, Rosie Jones, Wideman, Martin, Gathers and Lewis.
2014 had: 7 main guys of Dunham, Chrabascz, Khyle Marshall, Woods, Barlow, Erik Fromm, and some other guy i can't think of.

2014, Fromm was playing over 20 minutes a game. Dunham and Chrabascz were 2 years younger. Marshall had the only Big East body, and was a workhorse who played his heart out, but he wasn't a natural scorer. Barlow was better compared to Lewis, but that's really it. 2016 has 6 pure scorers.

Anyway, a team that owned Purdue 2 weeks ago cannot suddenly be dumped for losing a tight game to #12 and a game at #6 that was 57-52 mid-2nd. Over reaction.

[stever20]

what game is Butler going to win vs those 3 though? @ PC? @ Nova? Nova or X at home? their best shot to win a game in that group was home vs pc and they lost...

so it's tough to have Butler in the group if they finish 0-6 in that group. I wouldn't have said that with PC because the Butler game was on the road. that's the difference....

Butler has a very different problem from their normal situation. Defense isn't good. worst it's been in 10 years. since Todd lickliter was coach. last year defense was 7 in the country. this year its 168.... and what's happened now- the offense is seeing real defense and has slipped considerably..

tomorrow is a huge game for Butler @ DePaul. its as close of a must win as you can have at this point of the season.

[billyjack]

what game is Butler going to win vs those 3 though? @ PC? @ Nova? Nova or X at home? their best shot to win a game in that group was home vs pc and they lost...

so it's tough to have Butler in the group if they finish 0-6 in that group. I wouldn't have said that with PC because the Butler game was on the road. that's the difference....

Butler has a very different problem from their normal situation. Defense isn't good. worst it's been in 10 years. since Todd lickliter was coach. last year defense was 7 in the country. this year its 168.... and what's happened now- the offense is seeing real defense and has slipped considerably..

tomorrow is a huge game for Butler @ DePaul. its as close of a must win as you can have at this point of the season.

Butler won at PC late last year. I think they led wire to wire. Let them play the games.
Not sure about the defensive issues. I know I've heard they've regressed but i haven't jumped into trying to figure out why.

[EMT]

what game is Butler going to win vs those 3 though? @ PC? @ Nova? Nova or X at home? their best shot to win a game in that group was home vs pc and they lost...

so it's tough to have Butler in the group if they finish 0-6 in that group. I wouldn't have said that with PC because the Butler game was on the road. that's the difference....

Butler has a very different problem from their normal situation. Defense isn't good. worst it's been in 10 years. since Todd lickliter was coach. last year defense was 7 in the country. this year its 168.... and what's happened now- the offense is seeing real defense and has slipped considerably..

tomorrow is a huge game for Butler @ DePaul. its as close of a must win as you can have at this point of the season.

Butler won at PC late last year. I think they led wire to wire. Let them play the games.
Not sure about the defensive issues. I know I've heard they've regressed but i haven't jumped into trying to figure out why.

I can't believe I'm defending Stever but what is he saying that is getting everyone so offended? I agree that Butler is closer to Seton Hall than PC, Nova, X RIGHT NOW. If you look at rpiforecast, X-1 Nova -2, PC -11, BU - 40, SHU -41.

SHU has a road win in hand. Stever is right. BU is not with the Top 3 right now.