Big East Conference Realignment v2018

[DudeAnon]

If you think that is the best route to go down for building the brand of the conference then I can respect that but I will disagree.

WSU, UD and VCU could all be easily argued as top half programs if they were added to the league right now. Add in their likely boost in recruiting etc. and it seems like a net positive. Adding great basketball programs in lieu of academic branding is a no-brainer for me. I don't want to be too disrespectful to my C7 brethren, but I think many of you have an inflated sense of self. Take away the "brand" and how many Big East schools can do better than those 3 in recent basketball success and fan support? Nova and Xavier for sure. Everyone else is up for debate.

Recent basketball success and fan support are 2 factors to consider, but they aren't the entire equation. The problem is everyone looks at Wichita, VCU, and Dayton, checks a few boxes, and says they're a good fit, what's the hold up? X, Butler, and Creighton were carefully vetted by this conference prior to invitations being extended. There's a reason the other three weren't included, and unless there's been a major change for any of these institutions, there's no reason to reconsider their admission.

You act as if X, Creighton and Butler are leaps and bounds better than those schools. No offense, but only Xavier was the surefire pick. You really think Creighton and Butler are that much better than UD, VCU and WSU? Don't let the C7's decision blind your objective judgment. All are good candidates and Butler and Creighton have done a good job since joining the conference, but that doesn't mean that the other three wouldn't have done as well. Imagine they had chosen Xavier, UD and WSU. WSU and Dayton probably get the seeds they deserve and have even better tournament runs. And UD likely still has Archie.

[whiteandblue77]

If you think that is the best route to go down for building the brand of the conference then I can respect that but I will disagree.

WSU, UD and VCU could all be easily argued as top half programs if they were added to the league right now. Add in their likely boost in recruiting etc. and it seems like a net positive. Adding great basketball programs in lieu of academic branding is a no-brainer for me. I don't want to be too disrespectful to my C7 brethren, but I think many of you have an inflated sense of self. Take away the "brand" and how many Big East schools can do better than those 3 in recent basketball success and fan support? Nova and Xavier for sure. Everyone else is up for debate.

Recent basketball success and fan support are 2 factors to consider, but they aren't the entire equation. The problem is everyone looks at Wichita, VCU, and Dayton, checks a few boxes, and says they're a good fit, what's the hold up? X, Butler, and Creighton were carefully vetted by this conference prior to invitations being extended. There's a reason the other three weren't included, and unless there's been a major change for any of these institutions, there's no reason to reconsider their admission.

You act as if X, Creighton and Butler are leaps and bounds better than those schools. No offense, but only Xavier was the surefire pick. You really think Creighton and Butler are that much better than UD, VCU and WSU? Don't let the C7's decision blind your objective judgment. All are good candidates and Butler and Creighton have done a good job since joining the conference, but that doesn't mean that the other three wouldn't have done as well. Imagine they had chosen Xavier, UD and WSU. WSU and Dayton probably get the seeds they deserve and have even better tournament runs. And UD likely still has Archie.

Didn't know we had Dayton trolls on here, wow, is this the same IP address as Fieldhouse Flyer?

[bluejayfanatic]

You act as if X, Creighton and Butler are leaps and bounds better than those schools. No offense, but only Xavier was the surefire pick. You really think Creighton and Butler are that much better than UD, VCU and WSU? Don't let the C7's decision blind your objective judgment. All are good candidates and Butler and Creighton have done a good job since joining the conference, but that doesn't mean that the other three wouldn't have done as well. Imagine they had chosen Xavier, UD and WSU. WSU and Dayton probably get the seeds they deserve and have even better tournament runs. And UD likely still has Archie.

Even if they had more success in the short term you refuse to factor in sustainability or any type of long-range assessment. Wichita, Dayton, and VCU have had more success over the last few years than Georgetown, Marquette, and St. John's. Should we kick them out of the conference and replace them with the flavor of the week? If the answer is no, ask yourself why. The closest candidate among the three to Butler and Creighton is Dayton, and your school is the reason they weren't chosen. I also never said Dayton doesn't fit the profile of the conference or shouldn't be considered in expansion. Yes, I do believe Creighton and Butler are leaps and bounds above an open-admission municipal university with a tiny alumni footprint in a small market and a VCU program on the decline. If you think short-term basketball success is the only measuring stick, we are fortunate you're not running the conference.

[NJRedman]

In regards to the Big XII and 20 conference games if they stand pat at 10 members like us we could easily negotiate some agreement where we either play 2 XII teams (1H and 1A) or play one team twice (H&A). I'm sure they would be receptive to that idea with us being in big media markets and good recruiting grounds.

[gtmoBlue]

You're giving Butler no respect here. Butler has been head and shoulders above all 3 named schools during recent history...and has a long history of successes. Creighton less so but dominated WSU during their tenure in the MVC.

I like the 20 game conference schedule idea. Let's do it...with Gonzaga and St Bonnie/St Louis.

[DudeAnon]

Just so we are clear. Here is how I would rank the Big East in tiers with all realistic candidates added.

1) Nova, Xavier, WSU

2) Creighton, Butler, VCU

3) Seton Hall, Providence, Dayton

4) Georgetown, Marquette, St. John's, DePaul, UConn

Anyone disagree with this? If so, what specifically do you disagree with? Georgetown and Marquette may be shocked to see themselves that low. But that is the current state of their program and I don't see it changing any time soon.

By the way, this would be a great conference and arguably more competitive than the one we have now.

[whiteandblue77]

Just so we are clear. Here is how I would rank the Big East in tiers with all realistic candidates added.

1) Nova, Xavier, WSU

2) Creighton, Butler, VCU

3) Seton Hall, Providence, Dayton

4) Georgetown, Marquette, St. John's, DePaul, UConn

Anyone disagree with this? If so, what specifically do you disagree with? Georgetown and Marquette may be shocked to see themselves that low. But that is the current state of their program and I don't see it changing any time soon.

By the way, this would be a great conference and arguably more competitive than the one we have now.

I was wrong, not a DayTroll, you're a WichiTroll.

[Edrick]

Meaning no disrespect, but Villanova is by themselves and WSU and Xavier categorically are not on a higher tier than Butler.

Lets look at some very basic longer term metrics...

Top 25 weeks (this century)

Butler - 113 weeks
Xavier - 110 weeks
WSU - 78 weeks

NCAA Tournament games (this century)

Butler - 33 games
Xavier - 36 games
Wichita State - 19 games

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We could do more (average Pomeroy finish?), but its going to show you the same thing. Butler and Xavier are always right next to each other one way or the other and WSU is far back.

Of course, you could do this for the rest of the league, but only VU has numbers of the like.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Just so we are clear. Here is how I would rank the Big East in tiers with all realistic candidates added.

1) Nova, Xavier, WSU

2) Creighton, Butler, VCU

3) Seton Hall, Providence, Dayton

4) Georgetown, Marquette, St. John's, DePaul, UConn

Anyone disagree with this? If so, what specifically do you disagree with? Georgetown and Marquette may be shocked to see themselves that low. But that is the current state of their program and I don't see it changing any time soon.

By the way, this would be a great conference and arguably more competitive than the one we have now.

Are you basing this off of right now in the moment or including recent history? Those are two completely different things for some of these programs. Nova deserves to be in a class by themselves. Wichita has always been overrated and they've shown that going from the Valley to the AAC. If they were in the Big East they'd be similar to Seton Hall, Providence, Butler and Creighton. Butler if you included recent history you could have above Creighton, Seton Hall and Providence because of tournament wins but they just lost their head coach so we'll see if Jordan keeps up that standard. VCU just lost their coach and is struggling this year so if you're looking at the programs right now they don't deserve to be that high. Same can be said for Dayton as well. Here would be my rankings which is more weighted on the program right now with recent history also in mind.

1. Nova
- Best by far. As long as Jay stays they'll stay up here.
2. Xavier
- Second best by far when considering regular and post season success. Would obviously fall if Mack leaves.
3. Butler, Creighton, Providence, Seton Hall, WSU
- All have different positives and negatives but on the whole these teams are on the same level. Consistent tournament teams but not consistently into the second weekend.
4. Marquette
- On the up with the team being almost all underclassmen. Still need to scrape a tournament appearance this year to keep momentum and then next season is really make or break time for Wojo.
5. VCU, Dayton
- Both recently lost their coaches and won't make the tourney this year. Could easily climb if the new coaches get them back to making the tourney regularly.
6. Georgetown, UConn, St. John's, DePaul.
- I rank Georgetown first in this group since they've got the new coach hope. UConn I would think would join that group as they've got to fire Ollie. Both programs are playing way below their level for how much money they put into their programs. St John's got a tough break this year with Lovett but Mullin appears to be a horrible coach. If they don't improve next year he'll be out soon. Depaul got a new arena but made a terrible coaching hire. It doesn't even seem like they care about having a good program.

[DudeAnon]

Meaning no disrespect, but Villanova is by themselves and WSU and Xavier categorically are not on a higher tier than Butler.

Lets look at some very basic longer term metrics...

Top 25 weeks (this century)

Butler - 113 weeks
Xavier - 110 weeks
WSU - 78 weeks

NCAA Tournament games (this century)

Butler - 33 games
Xavier - 36 games
Wichita State - 19 games

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

We could do more (average Pomeroy finish?), but its going to show you the same thing. Butler and Xavier are always right next to each other one way or the other and WSU is far back.

Of course, you could do this for the rest of the league, but only VU has numbers of the like.

I am curious, do you really believe Butler is next to Xavier? Take away their 2 runs with Stevens and there is literally no comparison. H-2-H, regular season, post-season, attendance, recruiting. X > Butler.